Transcript

Robert Greening: I think family lawyers may not think about this but a personal injury claim is an asset. Just the mere fact that it’s an asset would be something that I would imagine a family lawyer wants to know all the assets that are at issue, so to speak.

Voiceover: You’re listening to the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast, your source for the latest news and trends in family law in the state of Texas. Now, here’s your host attorney Holly Draper.

Holly Draper: Today we’re excited to welcome Robert Greening to the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast. Robert is the principal and founder at GreeningLaw, P.C. in Dallas, Texas. He was admitted to the Texas bar in 1990 and has spent the last 33 years of his life helping the injured and the family members of those killed due to the negligence of others receive justice and peace of mind.

Robert is board certified in personal injury trial law and he received his undergraduate degree from Southern Methodist University and his law degree from the University of Houston. Robert has been recognized as a Super Lawyer for 13 years, has achieved an AV rating from Martindale-Hubbell and has served as an instructor in trial advocacy at SMU School of Law. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Robert: Well, thanks for having me. I’m looking forward to talking about personal injury as it relates to family law.

Holly: So why don’t you start by telling us a little bit about yourself?

Robert: Well, like you said, I’ve been practicing for a very long time here in Dallas. I’m a native Dallasite. I grew up over in East Dallas and went to Bryan Adams High School over by White Rock Lake. And I’m one of the few people from here, I think, because so many people in Dallas aren’t from here.

Holly: I grew up in Plano. I’ve been here my whole life, too.

Robert: Yeah. So anyway, from here, I’ve been married for 35 years recently widowed, and I’ve got two children. I’ve got a 23 year old son who just graduated from SMU, my alma mater, which was fun to have a child where I went to school. And then I have a daughter that’s a sophomore at Sewanee University of the South over in Sewanee, Tennessee. So I got two dogs and a cat. So that’s about me.

Holly: So you’re a little bit, I think you’re the first personal injury attorney that I’ve had on the podcast. But we like to bring on people that are from different practice areas because so often we intersect with other practice areas when we’re doing family law. So I think it’s really important for our family lawyers to have some basic understanding of those intersections and, you know, know a little bit about various practice areas. So how would you describe your current practice?

Robert: So we have three lawyers here at our firm. And, you know, our firm’s been around for a very long time. And we, we try to specialize on bigger cases, bigger medical malpractice cases. And then also, bigger motor vehicle accident, premises liability, really the gamut of any kind of personal injury case. The only type of personal injury case, we really don’t do our products liability cases.

And we will do those if they are like a medical device that has to do with a malpractice case. But anyway, that’s generally what our practice is. And its litigation practice, you know, we have some cases in pre litigation that we are able to settle. But most of our cases go into litigation, because they’re larger cases. And, you know, if you want to get the full value of those cases, you’re going to be litigating those cases.

Holly: So it’s interesting that you say you do medical malpractice, because it seems like fewer and fewer attorneys will go into that realm at this point with tort reform and all that.

Robert: There’s, you know, we say no more than we say yes to the medical malpractice cases, but there are some good medical malpractice cases. And I’m talking, I would venture to guess that most of the people listening to this podcast are lawyers. So I know that sounds kind of gross to say, a good medical malpractice case, but I’m talking like a lawyer now, in terms of when you put a value or try to evaluate one of those cases.

It’s, you have to have economic damages in order to make them work cost effectively, because they are very time consuming, complicated and expensive to fund. And so the way we get paid at our firm is on a contingency fee agreement. So we take a percentage out of the recovery if we are able to resolve the case, whether it’s through trial or settlement, and then our expenses come out of the recovery as well.

So, you know, you never want to be as they say, upside down on a case. So you’ve got to have pretty significant economic damages because there is that cap on the non economic damages in a medical malpractice case. So the kinds of cases we’re looking for, in a medical malpractice case, when I say economic damages would be, you know, a lot of medical bills related to the malpractice.

Somebody that’s going to require lifetime care, or, you know, something like that. Well, if you have a, if you have a lifetime care package, or long term care package on a, economic analysis on a case that somebody is going to need, you know, lifetime around the clock nursing care, because of malpractice, for the next 25 years, I mean, that’s millions and millions of dollars. And so we can do that case, you know, we can make the case.

Holly: So the cap doesn’t apply to economic damages? It only applies to the pain and suffering or whatever other non economic there are.

Robert: That’s correct. That’s correct.

Holly: That’s why a death case isn’t worth that much.

Robert: Well, I mean, a death case could be worth more money, if you have a high wage earner. And they have, you know, they have a wife, or a husband and two children, and the children are small, and they were the breadwinner of the family. Or one of the major breadwinners of the family, and they’re no longer there.

Well, you can put a pretty big, you know, loss of earning capacity claim on that. That fits into and we’ll talk about the damages later, but it fits into what’s called pecuniary losses. And so those, those can add up even in a wrongful death case. Now, there is a cap within a cap on not to get in the weeds at this, but there’s a cap in a cap in a wrongful death case in medical malpractice.

And it’s capped at around $2 million now. So but still a $2 million case, that’s, you can do that case, and really do some good for people. So but then, you know, in a normal car wreck case or commercial trucking case or something like that, they haven’t put caps on those yet. So, yeah.

Holly: So why do you think it is important that family lawyers have at least some basic understanding of personal injury law?

Robert: Well, I, you know, one of the reasons is because, you know, I think family lawyers may not think about this, but a personal injury claim is an asset. And so I don’t know that much about family law. But I would think that a family lawyer would want to know all the assets and the separate property estate or the community property estate, when they’re trying to, you know, figure out what the assets are.

And so it is an asset. And I don’t really know the answer, you probably do as to which damages could be considered separate property versus community property. But I think that just the mere fact that it’s an asset, would be something that I would imagine a family lawyer wants to know all the assets and that are at issue, so to speak.

Holly: Right. And I think oftentimes, when we’re thinking about that division, we tend to look at only a case that’s either already settled, or one that are kind of judgment, or one that is currently in litigation or settlement or whatnot. But we probably also need to be looking at is there a potential claim out there? Did somebody have a horrific car accident and tons of medical bills, and the statute of limitations hasn’t yet run on it? And they may have a claim in the future? They’re waiting to divorce before they go after it.

Robert: That’s true. I mean, I think that’s true. And it really made me, when I was preparing to talk to you today, it made me kind of think about those things that I’d never really thought about that much. But yeah, if a client is thinking about getting a divorce, or what have you, I think that it’s important for me, or you, me as the personal injury lawyer, you as the family lawyer to understand that and to know what their plans are, and do they have a claim or not, so that we can properly advise them?

Holly: So you mentioned this a little bit already, but as family lawyers, we know that there are some personal injury damages that are community property. And there are other types of personal injury damages that are separate property. Can you talk about the different types of damages that there are in personal injury cases?

Robert: Yeah, so I don’t know if I can tell you which ones. I can guess which ones are community versus separate, but I only took marital property rights only, you know, I don’t know 30 something years ago. So I have, and I took marital property and I took family law. That’s it. So I’m gonna leave it up to you to tell me which ones are community versus separate. But, you know, in a typical personal injury case, the person who’s hurt, you know, the injured party has claims for past and future physical pain and mental anguish.

They have claim for past and future physical impairment. They have past and future loss of earning capacity. Past and future disfigurement claims if there is disfigurement, and past and future claims for medical care expenses. And so, you know, those are the elements of damage for the person that’s injured.

Holly: Okay, so tell us a little bit about what kind of damages a spouse could possibly have in a personal injury case.

Robert: Okay. So let’s say, just to make it easy, like you’re my spouse, you get hurt in an accident, and you have all the injury claims that we just went through. The damage claims that we just went through. But as your husband, I would have limited claims, because my claims are derivative of your claim, right. So my claims would be for loss of household services, and for loss of consortium.

So loss of household services is things like, well, you know, my wife usually cleans the kitchen and makes dinner every night. And now she can’t do that, because she’s hurt. That has a value. And that’s a household service, or the other way around, if I’m hurt, and you’re my spouse, and I always do the yard work.

And now you have to go and get somebody to do the yard work, because I can’t do it anymore because of my injuries. That’s a household service. Anything like that. And then loss of consortium is probably something that you guys deal with in medical, I mean, I’m sorry, in family law all the time that I’ll just read you the definition.

It means that mutual right of the husband and wife to that affection, solace, comfort, companionship, society, assistance, sexual relations, emotional support, love, and felicity necessary to a successful marriage. So, you know, if you’re married, and your spouse gets hurt, and they can’t, you know, have that kind of relationship, any part of that relationship that has an economic value to it.

Holly: Do you typically request those type of damages in cases?

Robert: So you know, depending on the case, if it’s a case where, let’s say it’s a car wreck, and the injured person, let’s say, it’s the wife, she breaks her leg, and she’s had to have a surgery, and she’s, you know, unable to get around for three or four months. And she’s got, you know, that’s a decent case, it’s not the, you know, greatest case in the world, but I mean, she’s got a broken bone, and there’s clear liability and that kind of thing.

That’s probably a case that I would advise the spouse, the husband of the person with the broken leg, to not bring their claim for household services, or loss of consortium in that situation, because it’s not a huge claim, and it cheapens the value of her claim. And so that’s a claim I probably would not bring.

Just because it looks like you’re trying to throw the kitchen sink at the insurance company, or ultimately the jury is kind of going man these people are, they’re wanting money for everything. You know what I mean? If that’s the case, and I’m just trying to give you context, if it’s a case where the spouse, let’s say, it’s the wife, again, has more than a broken leg.

I mean, let’s say that she’s got a brain injury, or she’s on a ventilator for three or four months, because she was hurt so bad and, or, you know, some really traumatic kind of significant injury. Then, of course, that would be the kind of case that we would want to bring the spousal claims there because it’s, they’re just much more significant. And it just makes more sense to do that.

Holly: So typically, the types of damages that are going to be separate, when it comes to community versus separate property are going to be, you know, pain and suffering, injury, you know, the impact that an individual feels as a result of, you know, disfigurement, future pain and suffering, things of that nature, whereas lost wages would be a community asset, because that was gonna go into the community estate.

Something I’ve noticed in the handful of times that we’ve had a personal injury issue in a family law case was that the damages weren’t always identified as what they were going to account for. So it was just we’re gonna settle for X dollars the entirety of the claim, as opposed to you’re getting X dollars for pain and suffering. Y dollars for disfigurement, this much for lost wages, etc? So is it common to split those out in either settlement or judgment? Or do you typically lump them all together?

Robert: In a settlement it’s common to lump them all together, because there’s no not been a fact finder. And so, you know, you’re just settling for X amount of money. Right? And so for a family lawyer, I think that would be difficult, because then I understand why you’re asking the question, because y’all are trying to figure out, okay, how much is this community? How much of this is separate?

And all that kind of thing, and it becomes a whole new negotiation that you got to do. But yeah, we don’t typically. Now we do in our demands, you know, when we send a demand letter out a lot of times we will separate out, like, here’s what we think a jury would do. And we put those numbers in there.

And that might be some kind of evidence that you, as a family lawyer could use to say, well, your lawyer thought it was worth, you know, your lawyer thought your lost wage claim was worth this. So we can extrapolate that out. You know what I mean? So there may be some evidence, you could use that way to get at that. But typically, it’s just an amount of money in a settlement.

Now, obviously, if it’s a trial, and you have a judgment, the jury does, yes, the jury charge is very explicit for each element of damage that we went through, the jury is going to put a number in each one of those boxes. So that’s easy. That’s an easy calculation, because you’ll know exactly what the jury did. Does that make sense?

Voiceover: This episode of the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast is sponsored by the Draper Law Firm, providing family law litigation in Collin, Denton and Dallas counties and appeals across Texas. For more information, visit draperfirm.com, or call 469-715-6801.

Holly: Yeah, so I think from a family law perspective, everything is presumed to be community property. So you’re gonna have, you know, a family lawyer, if you have a lump sum of damages, whoever is trying to prove some of it as separate is going to have a high hill to climb, if, you know, not itemized out. I think if a lawyer has a client in a divorce, who is currently involved in a personal injury case, it’s super important for the personal injury lawyer to know what’s going on. And they can try to craft settlements in such a way as to create more separate property, versus community property.

Robert: Right, but, you know, there becomes all these ethical things that happen. If I’m representing both spouses, and then somebody like you calls me and says, oh, I represent spouse A, and they’re getting a divorce now, and I want you to help me make sure that it looks like more separate property. That’s a whole ethical quandary for me, because I represent both of them. Do you see what I mean?

Holly: Is that typically what happens if somebody’s married, and they have a personal injury claim? Are you always going to be representing both of them? Or are you typically only representing the injured party?

Robert: A lot of times, well, let me say it this way. I have never had a client and 32 years are going on 33 years of practice that I can remember, anyway, they started divorce proceedings during my case. So I don’t know what would happen. But, I would think what would happen is, the first thing I would try to do is dissuade them from doing that, until we’re done with our case, you know.

And I would try to work with both of their lawyers to make it, you know, to do what we could to everybody work together. But I mean, short of that, if you can’t do that, I think that the PI lawyers got to say, look, y’all gotta get along here or I’m gonna have to get rid of both of you ethically, because I can’t, if we’re opposed with each other, how can I represent both of you? You see what I mean?

Holly: It could definitely be. As soon as there’s a divorce, there is inherently, I think, a conflict in that personal injury case, if you’re representing both because what’s in the best interest of one is not in the best interest of the other.

Robert: That’s true. And so the key is communication. I think, you know, but, you know, one of the things, you know, I’m going to bring it up. Now, I don’t know if this is an appropriate time, but you know, one of the things that that we haven’t really talked about, and I will tell you that, I told you I’ve never really had to deal with a family lawyer in one of my cases before, but I think it’s important for you, as a family lawyer are all your listeners as family lawyers to not only find out if there’s any claims out there that may not, they may not have lawyers, but find out if they do have a lawyer.

And if they are pursuing a claim, it’s just so important because you’ve got to have communication, because everybody needs to be on the same page with all of that stuff. But what I was going to say was one time, I was approached by a family lawyer, wanting some advice from me on how to pursue and add into the divorce suit, a personal injury claim against the spouse for, you know, intentional infliction of emotional distress, for giving the spouse an STD.

Holly: We’ve seen those sorts of tort claims in family law cases for sure.

Robert: Yeah. And so, you know, I think it’s important to if you’re going to try to do that kind of thing, in your cases, talk to somebody like me, because you don’t want to like I would never want to try to dabble in family law, I don’t think you want to try to dabble in, in tort law. So you know, that lawyer got with me, and I help that lawyer, you know, with her pleadings, and, you know, just made sure that everything was pled properly and I went to mediation with them, and that kind of thing.

So I think that’s an important thing to just kind of bring up during the context of this conversation. I don’t know how often that really happens. But my understanding is that doesn’t necessarily, I mean, well, let me put it this way. It seems like most of the claims that tort claims that you would have, that are subsumed within a divorce proceeding, are almost more like intentional torts, you know, like, assault, intentional infliction of emotional distress, invasion of privacy, maybe where they go in to their email or, you know, whatever, or slander or, you know, fraud, maybe something like that.

And those are all intentional torts, that there’s no insurance coverage, you know, that would pay those claims, because they’re intentional. And, you know, and so, you know, typically, you know, we don’t do any cases involving intentional torts in our office, because we’re looking for insurance money.

And intentional torts are never covered. Now, I can see why you would do that in a family law matter. But, you know, I don’t know that much about the strategy behind it. I would assume you’d want to do it only if there’s money to pay the claim, though, because it’s going to come from someone’s bank account, not from their insurance. You know what I’m saying?

Holly: You would be surprised, though, how many family law clients, they want that judgment against the other side, and they don’t care if there’s not enough money to pay it. But, as attorneys, we typically are, you know, if there’s not, you can’t get blood out of a turnip. So if there’s not a large enough estate to make it worth going after those claims, then we usually wouldn’t do that.

But something I’m not sure exactly when this podcast will air but it probably be after September 1. And something that the family lawyers should definitely be aware of with that is, if you’re including tort claims in your family law case, you are now going to implicate two different sets of discovery rules.

Because they’re changing the family law discovery rules back to be different, or the old way. But the civil discovery rules with disclosures and that sort of thing are going to remain the same. So family lawyers beware, if you’re going to be dabbling in tort claims with your family law case, you may now have two different sets of rules you have to worry about.

Robert: I see, okay. Yeah.

Holly: So, coming back to damages that we were talking about earlier, when you are trying to get a personal injury case settled, how much control do you have over categorizing damages? Or do you not even bother trying to do that at all?

Robert: When you’re trying to settle a case?

Holly: Right.

Robert: Like I said, you know, we typically will prepare a settlement package. And if we’re trying to get a case settled, whether we’re in litigation or or pre litigation, and, you know, we put together a damage model on the case, and we put, you know, we set it all out, like, you know, here’s all the claims and a lot of times we will put dollar amounts that we predict a jury would award for each one of those elements. So we do that from time to time, or most of the time. That’s what we do.

Holly: So typically, what we might see in our family law discovery is you know a settlement that says X dollars is the total amount that this case is settled, we’ve agreed to settle for. So it sounds like attorneys shouldn’t be digging deeper than that in their discovery to get the underlying settlement package, any offers that were exchanged back and forth. If you want to try and prove that some of that, however much is for lost wages, or is for something that is going to be a community asset.

Robert: I think you can, I think you should. Now, like I said, we do that. But then at the end of the day, it’s a lump sum settlement. And it’s not, you know, there’s nothing in the settlement agreement that says out of this you know, $200,000, X amount was for lost wages, X amount was for medical bills. So it’s never set out in the compromise settlement agreement.

Holly: It would really help us if you can start doing that.

Robert: It’s usually at a minimum, the loss of earning capacity claim or loss of earning loss of wage claim, though, is usually set out in a demand package. Because you know, we’ve got to do that, because we want people to know what that claim is, because that’s a real hard element of damage. It’s not some pie in the sky number for pain, you see what I mean? We want them to know, and they’re not going to pay a lost wage claim unless they’ve got hard evidence of it, with W-2 backup and that kind of thing.

Holly: So if we have a client or a friend or you know, random person on Facebook, who has gotten injured in a car accident, or whatever the case may be, what advice should we give them as non personal injury lawyers?

Robert: Call me. I’m just kidding. I’m just teasing. Call a Board Certified Personal Injury Trial Lawyer. I mean, it doesn’t have to be me. But I mean, they should just like, if somebody calls me up and says, I want to get a divorce, I’m not going to start giving them advice on how to do their divorce. Because I don’t know how to do that. So I would just say, don’t try to tell them how to do what I do.

Have them call a lawyer to get advice. Because, you know, these insurance companies, they, you know, they’re real nice to them, and oh, let’s just work this out. You don’t need a lawyer, you know, all that kind of thing. There’s so much to what we do. I mean, you know, you see the guys on TV, and they make it seem so easy.

Like, just call us, we’ll get you money kind of thing. But, you know, there’s liens involved. There’s health insurance liens, there’s hospital liens, there’s all kinds of people with their hand out, and you need a lawyer to help you negotiate. Not only, you know, against the insurance company of the person that hurt you, but all these other people that have their hands out and want some of your money.

So you really, you really need somebody to protect your interest, and make sure that you don’t mess up and get money. But then all of a sudden, a year later, you’ve got all these people saying, well, wait a minute, you got money, but you owe us money. And, you know, that kind of thing.

Holly: So way back in the beginning, we talked about how a PI claim that hasn’t yet been started might still be an asset. What are the statute of limitations issues that we should be aware of?

Robert: So it’s a two year statute of limitations in Texas. Two years from the date of incident to bring a claim. In a medical malpractice case, it’s two years from the date of malpractice to bring a claim. But there are exceptions in medical malpractice for, I mean, we can talk a whole hour on exceptions in med mal. But I mean, the general rule is two years from the date of malpractice. Let me give you a typical exception example. And it’s kind of something I think we kind of learned in law school.

The discovery rule does apply in medical malpractice cases in Texas. And what that means is typical cases, let’s say I had a surgery three years ago. And today, I find out they do an x-ray on me for some other reason. And I find out that there is a scalpel left inside of me from that surgery three years ago, and I never had any trouble. I never had any problem. You know, I was going in for some completely separate thing.

The scalpel never caused me to have to go to a doctor or anything. I’m just now discovering the scalpel and there’s nothing that should have alerted me to discover it before then. That would be an exception, right? That’s the discovery rule. I just discovered malpractice. I have a scalpel inside of me.

But that’s a very rare exception because the Supreme Court has really whittled away at that and, you know, you’ve got a duty to mitigate, you’ve got a duty to follow up if you’re having a stomach ache, you know, all those kinds of things.

And so, you know, there’s cases out there say, well, we don’t care if you just discovered it, you were having all these problems before and you should have figured it out. The law is against the patient. Just always think in a malpractice case, the law is against the patient. So it’s a very rare exception. So I always just tell people, you got two years.

Holly: So can you describe for us generally, what the process is like when you get, you know, a new personal injury client walks into your office?

Robert: Well, I mean, you know, it’s, it’s probably like, the same as you guys. I mean, you know, we sort of have a system in place where, you know, in a, like, I don’t mean, it’s the same, but I know that every office probably has systematized certain things. And not that we’re some sort of mill or factory. But I mean, you know, we try to be thorough, and so we’ve systematized what we do.

And so you know, when a case comes in, if it’s a car wreck case, a lot of times our clients don’t have health insurance or don’t, or maybe they have health insurance, but they don’t know where to go, they don’t know. And a lot of people with health insurance, the doctors won’t see them, they won’t see car wreck clients. And maybe they’ve gone through the emergency department at a hospital, and they’ve actually been hospitalized, but when they get out, nobody wants to see them because they don’t want to be involved in litigation or anything.

So, you know, we’ve got doctors that we can send people to, and other therapists or whatever is needed, we’ve got experienced case managers that really know a lot about medicine, that can get people to the correct specialty. A lot of doctors, just family doctors, or internal medicine doctors, they don’t know really the intricacies of what can happen to people in car wrecks and don’t really know how to work them up.

So we’ve got really specialized people that we work with that can help with all that kind of thing. And so I think that’s a real added value that a lawyer can provide most law firms. I don’t know, not every law firm, but a lot of law firms can provide that to their clients. And so that’s on a personal injury case, we just get people the treatment they need.

And we also then, you know, immediately let the other side know, like, okay, we’re representing these people stop bothering them. And we sort of step in. Our whole philosophy here is sort of our slogan or mission statement or whatever, is we tell people we’ve got this, let us fight your legal battle, you just go get well.

You know, we say we fight the legal battle so our clients have time for healing and renewal. Because we have a lot of people that come in like somebody’s died, you know, somebody’s in a wheelchair, or on a ventilator, or, you know, their whole life has been, their family’s lives have been turned upside down.

So we try to just sort of let them take care of their family. Take care of themselves. Get well, and we do the other stuff for them. And so, you know, it’s a pretty immediate need for people that have just been in a catastrophic accident. But in a medical malpractice case, sometimes it’s not so immediate, the event has occurred, a lot of times, it’s a death case.

The event has occurred and that is a longer process of gathering all the evidence, which is medical records, gathering all the evidence that we need, and then it’s a very long lead time before we can file a lawsuit because the medical malpractice tort reform statute requires us to have pretty much all of our case, ready to go and given to the other side in the form of expert reports, before we can even, well, within 120 days of the answer to the lawsuit, we have to have all those reports.

And if you don’t have them, then attorneys fees are assessed against your client. So we make sure we have all those reports before we even file a lawsuit. So there’s a huge lead time on getting all that.

Holly: So you better be looking at this long before two years, then.

Robert: Yes. So our sort of deadline for, you know, or cut off, I should say unless it’s the case of the century and we’ll make an exception. If it’s been more that, if there’s only six months left on a medical malpractice case, we typically don’t take it. Just not enough time.

Holly: Well, we are just about out of time. But one question I like to ask everybody who comes on the podcast is this. If you could give one piece of advice to young lawyers, what would it be?

Robert: One piece?

Holly: Well if you have several feel free. People like getting advice.

Robert: Well, I mean, I think one piece of advice I would. Let me give you several. Two, how about two. One is listen to your clients. And the other is, remember that what we do is a great profession, but it’s also a business.

Holly: Yes. Very, very good things to keep in mind for all the lawyers regardless of practice area. So where can our listeners go if they want to learn more about you?

Robert: Well, we’re on all the social media platforms, even Threads, we just got on Threads. And, but if you want to find us on any of them, it’s at GreeningLaw P.C., and then our website is www.greeninglaw.com. And it’s green ing like, you know, greening. So you can find us there.

Holly: Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Hopefully, our listeners learned some good things they can implement in their practice. And for our listeners, if you enjoyed this podcast, please take a second to leave us a review and subscribe to enjoy future episodes.

Voiceover: The Texas Family Law Insiders podcast is sponsored by the Draper Law firm. We help people navigate divorce and child custody cases and handle family law appellate matters. For more information, visit our website at www.Draperfirm.com