Transcript

Cory Montfort: Lawyers prepare you sort of for what seems like your worst day, you know? And therapy can really help you prepare for your best. And so it’s it’s we need both. But you need good representation, but learning how to communicate can change the whole process.

Voiceover: You’re listening to the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast, your source for the latest news and trends in family law in the state of Texas. Now, here’s your host attorney Holly Draper.

Holly Draper: Today we’re excited to welcome Cory Montfort to the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast. Cory has a master’s in counseling from Southern Methodist University, where she specialized in working with individuals, couples and families. She has extensive experience working within the mental health community facilitating groups, conducting assessments, counseling individuals and performing crisis intervention. Cory has an active license in professional counseling and is a board-approved counselor supervisor for the state of Texas. Cory’s trained in collaborative law and is an active member of Collaborative Divorce Texas and Collaborative Law Dallas. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Cory: Oh, thank you for having me excited to be here.

Holly: So why don’t you start by telling us a little bit about your background?

Cory: Okay, so I have to first say I’m a mom of four kids. Their, their ages span across, I believe it’s 16 years. So I have a daughter who just turned 22, and a five year old and some couple in between. So that’s my biggest job, probably. And then I was a teacher a long time ago. I call it kind of my first life. But in my 20s, after college, I taught eighth grade math for a few years. And then I started to realize that it’s kind of started at home. And I would hear, you know, students stories about their family life and their home life. And I got really interested in learning more about relationships and how to help families. So I took a couple years off of teaching and went back to grad school. And the rest is history. And now I own a practice in Plano, we have about five therapists that do a wide range of things. But we mostly work with couples, and adults and some teens.

Holly: So what percentage of your practice is involving litigation or a collaborative law or the family law context?

Cory: So I’m trained in collaborative law as is one of my colleagues here, Laurie Poole. And we don’t actually do, we don’t do the collaborative law piece. It’s the mental health professionals. But I was very happy to be trained in it, because I think it was very helpful for us on the on the therapeutic side to understand more of what goes on in that process. But I would say, again, probably 60, 70% of our of our clientele at the Montfort group is couples. And many of them are going through divorce or have been divorced. A lot of co parenting issues. And so we refer to lawyers all the time, and vice versa.

Holly: So how would you describe your current practice?

Cory: So I mean, kind of like what I said, I think it is, it’s busier than ever. I think most mental health professionals will say, that’s the case. I also think we’re getting a lot more couples that are considering divorce. There’s also a lot of sessions with co parents struggling with the new, the new normal of how to conduct raising their kids in this fashion. And I know, I was telling you earlier that I did a podcast early in the pandemic. And I think, you know, my answers are a little bit different now, because of all the unknowns.

And so to have to communicate, we, I mean, obviously, that’s one of the biggest things people come to counseling for is how to communicate better. And so I think people are really struggling, especially when they can’t see each other face to face. So we’re kind of busting at the seams and trying to help everybody we can. But again, the practice itself is mostly dealing with the primary relationships of parents, and either co parents or married parents that are fatigued, for sure.

Holly: So you mentioned the pandemic, and that’s the topic that we’re generally going to be talking about here today. Who would have guessed when you were a couple months into this pandemic, and you did your last podcast with somebody on it that we would still be here talking about it today. So kind of as a general overview, what issues are you seeing in your practice that you you attribute to the pandemic?

Cory: Oh, well, so there’s, there’s the whole thing of telehealth. Okay. So, you know, we are, we are on zoom right now, we started implementing way more telehealth than we have ever done before. I mean, I would say maybe one client a month prior to prior to the pandemic was on video conferencing. And of course, that changed a lot. What we saw though, with the increase in telehealth, for instance, was also a little bit different therapeutic process, it’s very difficult to help couples or individuals that are trying to go through something and their spouse or children are in the other room, and they’re trying to have a private conversation.

Or they’re at work trying to get, you know, into a conference room so they can have some time to talk. It’s very difficult with the privacy thing. So even just to get therapy, I think has been a little bit more difficult. We’re also seeing I used the word fatigue earlier. I think we’re seeing more and more families. And I’ll say kids too, getting fatigued over just the restrictions that, understandably, have been placed on us as a society. People have been in close quarters for a really long time. And couple that with, they also haven’t been in connection with a lot of their friends and co workers and other family members.

So just the the, I guess the the wide range of of frustration that we’re too close, but yet, in a lot of cases, we’re too far away. So I think that has impacted the way people interact and their tolerance levels and their time management too. So their anxiety and stress. I think with substance abuse has increased. Depression in teens has increased. Financial issues, you know, a lot of the things that everybody listening probably already knows a little bit but yes, we we are hearing them firsthand in the office.

Holly: So you mentioned telehealth. Do you find that zoom meetings with clients who are getting therapy or couples? Do you find it to be anywhere near as effective as meeting with them in person?

Cory: So I think that’s a really good question. And I’m I’m one to answer pretty honestly. No, I don’t. And it I would say, it’s funny because couples are actually even more difficult, in my opinion to do telehealth, because you’re trying to do the same screen or in some cases, they’re in different places. So you’ve got, you know, two people talking, and I know you do this all the time. So you understand. There’s sometimes there’s a lag. Nothing’s more frustrating when you’re when you’re in therapy. And then the Wi Fi goes out or something lags. And you’re you know, it’s not ideal for sure. So yeah, we’re seeing couples trying to squeeze into one screen. Right. So, so they’re sitting super close. And, you know, in my office, sometimes they’re sitting on furthest sides of the couch, you know, so there’s, there’s a lot of unspoken stuff that goes on in therapy and the therapeutic relationship, and things that I can practice with them.

I used to sometimes I would change seats with them. Like I’d say, okay, I’m going to practice being the husband right now and try to teach or model how to respond to her when she’s, you know, complaining or whatever. And then we would switch seats. Well, none of that can really happen, even if they do come into the office because of all the protocols we’re trying to maintain. So I don’t know if that fully answers your question. But, yes, the telehealth is not ideal, but it’s what we have.

Holly: Well I know in family law, a lot of times we’re dealing with professionals who maybe have really busy schedules or we have teenagers or parents who have really busy schedules, and taking three hours out of their day to go meet with a mental health professional every week, is not really realistic. But now that they can block out only one hour of time, and they don’t have to travel. They don’t have to leave wherever they are. It seems to have increased the accessibility of therapy for a lot of clients.

Cory: Yes, yes. So so there’s the upside. And then I think as we go, as professionals are sort of learning how to help them make it the most effective possible. The first thing I ask somebody is, hey, are you in a space where you can talk? And sometimes they’ll tell me oh, no, I need to, you know, start a movie from my kid in the other room or it’s just a fresh reminder. And then I’ll say, you know, make sure it’s at its best. This will go best if you don’t have any distractions on your computer, your notifications going off. We have team meetings pretty regularly around here, and I’m telling my therapists like, you know, when you have your computer up, make sure that you don’t have notifications going off. So there’s those things that I know, I have teenagers in high school.

And sometimes I’m like, what are they, when they were doing some remote learning last year for a period of time. I was thinking, how could they even possibly be paying attention because they can be doing whatever behind that screen, you know. So I think just making, you know, as we go, trying to make some adjustments. It is sort of the new normal. I will say, at our office, the telehealth isn’t as prominent as it was last year, that people are feeling more safe to go, you know, into the office, we’re all vaccinated here. And, you know, we still keep strict protocols. But yes, I do think it’s kind of gotten convenient for people to like, yeah, I don’t have to drive from work. And we can just do this right here. It’s just I think there’s a cost to everything, you know,

Holly: Do you ever see, especially when you’re dealing with couples? Or maybe you’re dealing with co parents who don’t get along particularly well. When you’re in a virtual environment, do you see people just shutting it off and walking away? Seems a lot easier to do via zoom than if you were actually sitting in the office?

Cory: That’s funny. Um, I’ve never been asked that question, actually. Because I have had people walk out of my office before in a couple session. But I have yet to have someone leave a zoom meeting. So I don’t know. Maybe it’s the theatrical they like of leaving the office. Slamming the door or something, but no, I have not had anyone leave the zoom.

Holly: That’s sort of our fear, a lot of times in mediating via zoom is that someone’s gonna get mad, and just going to turn it off and leave. Whereas if we had them in a physical building, maybe they’d be a little bit easier.

Cory: Interesting. Yes, yes. That’s funny. No, I’ve luckily not had that.

Holly: So have you seen an increase in divorce and problems in marriage that you attribute to the pandemic?

Cory: I do, Holly. I do. And it’s, it’s sad. But I, it’s just one of the fallouts of all of this. But yes, we are seeing an increase in people filing for divorce. And not necessarily, you know, we see a lot of people that have experienced affairs in their relationships. And sometimes that leads to divorce. And sometimes it doesn’t, that has not been the prevalent issue, as far as you know, at least in 2020. Up until recently, because nobody was really going anywhere. So it was more about the stress of just trying to escape, I think. And maybe highlighting some of the more, there’s been, sadly, there’s domestic violence, verbal abuse, and when you don’t have anywhere to go, it’s very difficult to get help for that.

And to separate from that, and, you know, I think people’s again, people’s tolerance for stuff like that just lowered, because they were experiencing more of it, there’s, before they could go to work, and maybe, you know, three fourths of their life was tolerable and okay, and they, you know, they have their kids activities that they would go to. And then there was times when they were home, and you know, it wasn’t so great. But then, when it’s all the time at home, I think it puts a spotlight on a lot of the dysfunction. And so, yes, we are, we are saying for a variety of reasons. More divorce, more, more separation.

Some people are doing trial separation, which is a whole nother topic, but at least on the therapeutic side. But, you know, I’ve had couples that just rent an apartment and just tell their spouse one day, listen, I’ve rented an apartment, and I’m going, and we’ll see if this works. And then they start counseling. So, yes, and I almost wonder, because I didn’t I don’t think I saw as much of that before. I almost wonder if it is due to the pandemic, like, I just need some space. And then of course, the other spouse is like, great. I’ve got three kids over here. It’s nice that you’ve got some space. But, yeah, we’re gonna have to figure out how to have our togetherness and how do we have our autonomy, you know. But yes, we are seeing an increase in divorce.

Holly: Are you also seeing an increase of conflict between co parents who don’t live together that you would attribute to pandemic issues?

Cory: Yes, and again, different issues for different periods of the pandemic. Prior to 2021 and the new protocols for schools and how they’re going back, most of them are going back in person. Last year was just a mess. As far as where do they go? I will say, I, happily, I heard, at least, maybe more than half got along even better. Like they were putting the focus on the most important priority, which is the child and their education and their well being emotionally. Children are not handling the lack of structure very well. And so when the parents can come together, no matter what, and just say, what’s the best thing for them, even though the court order says XYZ, let’s talk about a plan that isn’t about necessarily us. But what’s best for our child. Gratefully, I have seen a lot of parents working together more because of the seriousness of what’s going on.

On the other side, I’ve seen a lot of parents use this as an opportunity to to hurt the other parent. And it’s super stressful on the kids. So I’ve definitely seen both where the conversations aren’t happening. The visits are, you know, maybe prolonged, and then the other parent wants, you know, to file something legally. I can’t imagine what the court system, there’s the hoops that they’ve had to jump through to figure out what’s best for everybody. And what’s okay. I had parents that, you know, their, their child may have been exposed to the virus at one parent’s home, and then there’s not communication on the other end. And so, there’s yeah, there’s a lot of conflict around that, understandably.

Holly: So usually, the ones that we’re seeing are obviously the ones on that latter side of your discussion where they’re having the conflict, the pandemic has not made them put the child first, and work together. So what tips would you give to family lawyers who are seeing those people come in, where they’re fighting about the pandemic. They’re fighting about the schooling, about notifications, and all of those types of things.

Cory: So, I know, this sounds like it’s in my own best interest. But it really is important, I think, at this time to start referring all of these people to a therapist, because I think, you know, part of a lawyer’s job is to represent that person in their best interest. And, and so if you can get a mental health professional involved, which is why I do like collaborative law. Because if you can get that if you can facilitate a conversation, prior to, you know, increasing the stakes so high and posturing and all the leverage that happens in front of in front of a judge. Having conversation, and we’re seeing it politically, we’re seeing it in so many different ways where people are lacking the ability to have a conversation.

And so really, they both love their child, they both want what’s best, sometimes they different what that means. But reminding, even though your job is to represent your client, right, but have if attorneys can remember to remind them that this can be better for families in general, their entire family, including themselves, if they can try communicating or mediating or collaborating prior to litigating. That’s, that’s my personal opinion. Also, anxiety is just higher for people. I know, not just for your clients, but for attorneys as well. And the way that attorneys are now having to operate and navigate through the different changes of the court system and talking with their clients, trying to take care of yourselves too. Whether that means therapy, or you know, some self care. I think a lot of attorneys from what, from what I’ve talked to are still working remotely.

So having some separation of work and home, I would say is really important. And then I tend to prefer if you’re if we had our druthers, I would say face to face this great, right, but we don’t all the time. But I like zoom for clients too rather than or video conferencing rather than just an email or a phone call. It is those little nuances are starting to add up to a lot of anxiety in people and I think just, you know, having a little bit more face to face. Even if it’s over, over video tends to get a message across rather than sometimes an email just you know, the black and white text of an email. So yes, patience, and I know you guys have a tremendous amount but patience for, you know their situation, but also grace for yourselves and having some boundaries.

I I’ve actually have quite a few attorneys out there that are clients and have been clients. And I, I know that word gets thrown around a lot. Boundaries. But oh, my goodness, I think I always remind my attorney clients, when do you, when do you stop? When do you take care of yourself? You’re not really going to be able to be as effective and exceptional at your job as you want to be. If you can’t stop working sometimes, you know. I think attorneys are one of the hardest working people. They don’t get sleep. I don’t know when ya’ll sleep. But that’s very important.

Holly: I’m not your stereotypical attorney, and my firm was virtual before the pandemic ever hit. And I’ve always been really great about the work life balance and shutting it down. Getting out, you know, I get plenty of sleep.

Cory: Good for you. Good for you. Having that dedicated office. It’s nice, right in your home, too, if that’s possible. But some people are setting up shop like in their kitchen.

Holly: Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I’m kind of jumping back to talking about collaborative law. And you mentioned, you know, getting client family lawyers, getting clients to see a therapist in kind of a collaborative law type way. And I got trained in collaborative law, but really don’t do much collaborative law myself. But I love using those pieces of it in the traditional litigation context to, okay, let’s try and get you all going in the right direction, you know. What good does it do to go fight in court and have somebody, quote, win, if your kid’s gonna be screwed up at the end of the day. Or you still hate each other? And so, you know, we’ve started doing a lot of that. Referring clients, to counselors who can work on co parenting issues, or family therapy, or sometimes individual counseling, because that particular client may be the problem and doesn’t realize it.

Cory: Yeah, well, and even if they’re not the problem, Holly, I’ll say, it’s a huge life change, and just navigating whether you feel like you were victimized, or, you know, there’s some level of you know, independence that you want, or you want to move on, and what that’s doing to your family. I think there’s just a lot of feelings to process around that. And I know they they call you guys counselors for a reason to, because you, you do a lot of that. You’re listening to their life story. And I commend you for how you’re stating that you handle it.

Because I think when people, a lot of people, when they decide to hire an attorney are mad, right? Or scared, which is sometimes the same thing. And they want vengeance, or they, you know, they want to feel better. And so when attorneys can communicate what’s best for the entire family, and especially long term, like, hey, if you take all of your ex’s money or ability to actually have a career, you’re cutting your own kids off from their ability to have resources. You know, sometimes it’s just reminding them of those kind of things, is not only I think, ethical, but in general would make the process a lot smoother for everyone.

Holly: So one of the issues that we periodically see with clients is that you may be able to convince them that they should do family therapy or co parenting counseling or individual counseling. But they don’t really buy into the process. They’re more of a I’m checking off the box and you want me to do this. So I’m going, or the court wants me to do this. Yeah, so I’m doing it. Do you have any advice for attorneys to help their clients buy in to the therapeutic process?

Cory: So I think the more an attorney understands what it is, the better. Like if they have gone before. Explaining that it’s it’s not necessarily there’s a difference between like court ordered co parenting facilitation or something. And the therapeutic process. I mean, ideally, we like to, we like to stay out of the courtroom. That does not always happen, but we’d like to stay out of it. And sometimes, you know, parent facilitators, well oftentimes I think they’re, they keep records for the court and can report to the court and willingly. This process is actually just more to help them through the transition of the divorce, and to process all of their feelings. And we’re typically cheaper per hour too. So, I don’t know if that helps helps your bottom line. But I think it’s a great reminder for attorneys to say it’s cheaper in the long run, to have some of these discussions, whether it’s with the other parent, you know, with the soon to be ex spouse or whatever.

Or, or the, the ex spouse, in some cases, to try to have someone who’s the professional communicator facilitator of, you know, arguments and discussions and disagreements, to try to come to some resolution prior to putting it before a judge on paper. And that’s your, you know, someone, I can’t remember where I, where I heard this, so I don’t know who to attribute it to right this second. But it was years ago, it’s like, lawyers prepare you sort of for what seems like your worst day, you know, and therapy can really help you prepare for your best. And so it’s, it’s, we need both, but you need good representation, but learning how to communicate can change the whole process. I’ve actually had a client and her attorney, come see me one time to facilitate a better relationship.

Holly: Between the client and the attorney?

Cory: Yes, they were so far

Holly: Interesting.

Cory: Yeah, I know, it was interesting. They were so far along in the process. And they were, you know, like, the client was frustrated, right. And I happen to know, the attorney, too. I think I had heard, like, I really would like to try to help and, and the attorney was more on board with coming in, and we facilitated a conversation. And everything went great after that. And sometimes that’s just what you need, you need a third party, even in a professional relationship. So giving some examples, maybe how it can save them in the long run and feel better during the process is a good thing. But yeah, I think maybe we probably as mental health professionals need to do more education or information, giving around what we can help provide a family during this time.

Sometimes it’s, hey, let’s put your kids in counseling too you know. We don’t do small children here. But I don’t play therapy can be super effective for kids. Parents don’t think that they’re small kids, oh, they don’t really know what’s going on. And boy do I have to tell them, their brains are like sponges with really big pores. And although they are not communicating these things and articulating how they’re feeling all the time, they are absorbing it, and it is affecting them. And their anxiety is a lot more than you think with all these changes are happening. Kids thrive on structure, routine, predictability. So the more we can do that, even throughout this big change, the better. You compound that with the pandemic. And yeah, I think even just educating society in general about the importance of these things. Could be a game changer right now,

Holly: One of the things you mentioned was about you don’t really like to be in court. And I find that is the case with a lot of mental health professionals, except for the very small handful that are really litigation focused, right. And I find that as attorneys, a lot of other attorneys want to send people to those small handful of litigation focused practitioners, because they’re looking at it as we’re gonna need this person in court, we’re going to get this person to backup our side. I think it may be generally more effective to send people to someone who’s not litigation focused. So what advice would you have for lawyers in that regard? And how to think about who you should be sending clients to, and kind of getting away from the little tiny pocket of litigation focused experts.

Cory: Yeah, that’s a that’s a another great, great topic that I appreciate your candor on, and your opinion, because I tend to agree. Our intention, as therapists that are not litigation focused necessarily is it can be isolated down to what is that intention is to help this family. And what we try to do because sometimes the court system doesn’t feel like it’s helping the family, it feel, you know, because, again, it’s based on a whole different set of set of rules. And I think, to remind attorneys that we still have to follow the law. If we have a court order signed by a judge, we have to show up. We have to, we have to show you what we what we have, you can put us on the stand, and we can talk through things.

But when it’s not something that we’re advertising that we do, you can rest assured that our main focus is to help the family stay out of the judge’s chambers. Stay out of the court, I guess not the judge’s chambers. You can see, I don’t know what I’m talking about. Probably, probably not that but stay out of the courtroom. Right. It’s not to say that they won’t need attorneys. But I mean, I think, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think a high percentage end up mediating out or end up settling prior to which is great. But having someone that doesn’t feel as threatening to the client to is really important.

Like, oh, everything I say in here, you know, can be used against me, and they’re already I mean, I’ve been through a divorce, I know that you’re already kind of on the height, heightened alert about everything you say. Everything your kids hear. Everything, you know, down to just the smallest thing you’re worried about being used against you. And so when you can lower that anxiety, again, everybody wins. And, and so I think coming to a therapist, that that is their focus is not to, you know, keep the best case notes possible for your case, and then, you know, be that expert was witness for you, is going for the intention of bettering the family rather than bettering your case. If that makes sense.

Holly: To what extent I know you don’t necessarily want to be in court. To what extent do you are you willing to talk with the attorneys on the case and kind of explain maybe what’s happening in therapy to help the attorney see, without going to court what’s going on. Because, in my experience, a lot of times that could really help us avoid going to court when we talk to these neutral mental health professionals. Because, you know, my client’s saying one thing and the other side’s client is saying the complete opposite. Well, if we can talk to the therapist, maybe we can get to the bottom of what’s really going on here.

Cory: Well, that’s all you know, consent driven, as you know, and if my client knows what the tricky thing is, and I’ve we have to sometimes consult with our own attorneys. On couples, when we see couples in session, that then they’re getting divorced. That’s the tricky part. That’s when we try to avoid talking to attorneys all together, unless we’re subpoenaed. But because, you know, you have to have consent of both people. And then both attorneys and so it gets a little sticky with couples. But when we see an individual and the individual signs a release and asked us to talk to someone, we are the Montfort Group, our therapists are. We pride ourselves on communicating with other professionals so that we can take a holistic approach, so that everyone can be on the same page.

Whether that be their position, or, you know, again, their attorney, if that helps them. But I have, oftentimes when I refer to an attorney, or refer someone to a specific attorney, I will say, I’m happy to catch them up on your story a little bit if you’d like. Because it is it’s a big process to even have a consultation with an attorney. I will say on the client’s and just that, you know, that one move. And so I try to remind them like this is just a consultation. You don’t have to file today, you know, this is just to try to understand, you know, the legal stuff, just before just arm yourself with information. So I think that’s the most of the time. That’s probably what I do is actually try to convince them. It’s funny how we’re talking about how do you guys convince them to come to therapy? And I’m trying to convince them to go seek some legal counsel.

Holly: Oh, yeah, probably the ones that you’re sending to the lawyers aren’t the ones that have to be convinced to go to therapy.

Cory: That’s true. That’s true. That’s true. That’s true.

Holly: All right. So we’re almost out of time. But if you could give one piece of advice to family lawyers, when dealing with their clients during this pandemic, what would it be?

Cory: Patience. Allow more time, allow them to process things. Try to get some mental health help, whether they’re the problem or not, whether they’re in crisis or not. And so I’m giving you the kind of reiteration of what we talked about earlier. But take care of yourselves. Have a routine. Have some sort of predictability. I know when people don’t get answers right away, right now they kind of freak out, you know, so just try to be reliable in that way. Predictable. I’ve been talking so much again about the smallest things. Can you have the same sort of structure to your day that you had before? So having predictability, you know, this is what I’m going to talk with my attorney, this is when you know we’re going to meet this is when just explaining a little bit more about the process.

Sometimes, as professionals, we get stuck in our language or our lingo. And we think we forget that other people don’t understand the process. And so I’ve even because I’ve gone through it, have told clients before, well, typically, like it, this comes first. And there’s really no legal separation in Texas and those kind of things. So I mean, just slowing down to to really answer all their questions and don’t assume that they know what’s coming next. But especially right now, I think the more information you can give to people about what’s coming next, because we feel so out of control in so many ways, can be a big sigh of relief.

Holly: Excellent advice. So where can our listeners go if they want to learn more about you?

Cory: Themontfortgroup.com. Oh, and I was supposed to plug. Almost forgot that we are starting our own podcast here. September 15, is going to be the launch of the first episode. It’s called Therapist Unplugged. And we will be it’s going to be hosted by our therapists, our in house therapist here, Laurie Poole. And we were going to have some guests on probably much like yourself. But we’re going to be talking kind of straight talk about sometimes what happens behind the scenes in therapy. Maybe what we really think sometimes. How we behave at home. And so hopefully it’s educational and fun to listen to as well.

Holly: Will people be able to find that on your website, or will they just search you know, Apple podcast, Spotify, all those places for it?

Cory: Yes, you’ll definitely be able to find it on my website at themontfortgroup.com. It also has its own domain therapistunplugged.com that we’re working on. So yeah, be on the lookout, September 15. We’re going to launch that inaugural episode.

Holly: Great. Well, thanks so much for sharing and thank you so much for being here today.

Cory: Thank you, Holly. Have a great day.

Holly: So for our listeners if you enjoyed this podcast please take a second to leave us a review and subscribe so you can enjoy future episodes.

Voiceover: That Texas Family Law Insiders podcast is sponsored by the Draper Law firm. We help people navigate divorce and child custody cases and handle family law appellate matters. For more information, visit our website at www.Draperfirm.com