Episode 149

In this episode of the Texas Family Law Insiders Podcast, Holly Draper welcomes Pamela Hailey-Petty, owner of Hailey-Petty Law Firm, PLLC, an estate planning and probate practice with offices in Austin and San Antonio. Family lawyers run into estate planning and probate questions far more often than most realize, and Pamela walks through the basics every family practitioner should understand — from wills, trusts, and powers of attorney to probate administration, guardianship, and trust administration. She also dispels one of the most common myths she hears, even from other attorneys: that everything automatically passes to a surviving spouse.

Blended families are a major focus of the conversation. Pamela explains that under Texas’s default rules, when a spouse dies without a will and has children from a prior relationship, the surviving spouse keeps their own 50% interest in the community home, but the deceased spouse’s half passes to those children. Even when all the children belong to both spouses, debts, inaccessible accounts, or minor children can push the family into a formal, court-supervised dependent administration, with added attorney time, court costs, and required accountings.

Holly and Pamela then turn to the issues that land squarely on family lawyers’ desks. Pamela explains how divorce affects an existing will, why naming a guardian in a will can’t simply cut out the other biological parent, and how Travis County probate courts have responded when parties try to use probate to sidestep the family code’s strict limits on non-parent conservatorship. Holly shares a personal story about caring for an aging parent that highlights why springing powers of attorney can fail exactly when they’re needed most, and Pamela explains why she always recommends powers of attorney that are effective immediately.

The episode closes with practical guidance on trusts: who genuinely benefits from one, including single parents of minor children, owners of out-of-state real property, blended families, and clients who value privacy. Pamela also covers what family lawyers should look for when a divorcing couple has a joint trust, why beneficiary designations and wills must be updated, how standing orders factor into the timing, and why the right answer on trusts is never “always” or “never,” but a careful look at what each client is trying to accomplish.

In This Episode, You’ll Discover:

•         Why “everything goes to my spouse” is a myth

•         When probate becomes court-supervised

•         How divorce affects an existing will

•         The limits of naming a guardian in a will

•         The core documents every adult should have

•         Why springing powers of attorney often backfire

•         Who should seriously consider a trust

Mentioned in this episode:

• Estate Planning
• Probate
• Blended Families
• Surviving Spouse
• Inheritance
• Community Property
• Intestate Succession
• Dependent Administration
• Guardianship
• Non-Parent Conservatorship
• SAPCR
• Powers of Attorney
• HIPAA Release
• Revocable Trust
• Joint Trust
• Beneficiary Designation
• Standing Orders
• Out-of-state Real Property

Transcript

Episode 149 | Pamela Hailey-Petty: Where There’s a Will…

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Often people think of becoming incapacitated as this black or white issue, and it’s not. Most of the time it’s not. It’s a huge continuum, and as people go along that continuum, they’re less-likely to give up that control because they feel that they’re losing that control.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Texas Family Law Insiders Podcast, your source for the latest news and trends in family law in the state of Texas.

Now, here’s your host, Attorney Holly Draper

Holly Draper: Welcome everyone to the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast. Today, I am joined by Pamela Hailey Petty, who is the owner of Hailey Petty Law Firm PLLC, with offices in Austin and San Antonio. She is an estate planning and probate attorney. And for clients who own businesses, Ms. Haley Petty incorporates business ownership into the estate planning process.

When she isn’t busy running her legal practice, she enjoys spending time at her family ranch in the Brazos Valley, hiking or swimming with the kids, or baking and cooking with her family. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Yeah. Thanks for having us, Holly.

Holly Draper: So why don’t you start and just tell us a little bit about yourself?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Oh, let’s see. I live in Austin. I grew up in Austin. Love the city. Spent a lot of time in San Antonio growing up, hence the offices in both locations. But, yeah, you know, undergrad, concentration on finance and economics, and took my first law class in undergrad and just felt like I got the playbook for life, and I just, you know, went down that kind of took a little segue to work after undergrad, but ultimately went back, for law school and, yeah, just really enjoy it.

Holly Draper: So, our podcast obviously targets family lawyers, but there are a lot of instances, probably more than most people realize, where family lawyers need some level of knowledge when it comes to estate planning or probate issues, or where we need to know that we need to pass somebody off to an estate planning or probate attorney.

So today, hopefully, we can provide people with a little bit of good information to give them the background knowledge that they need to help point their clients in the right direction and get everybody taken care of. So before we dig in too much on the substance- For those of us who haven’t thought much about estate planning since law school, can you give us the quick version of what you do and who typically walks through your door?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: So, we do everything, wills, trusts, powers of attorney, making sure blended families goals are taken care of. , We have a decent number of clients that have significant real estate assets, assets across the US, a lot of real estate sprinkled around the country, and then businesses and retirement accounts.

And so, on the estate planning side, really just making sure whatever the client’s goals are, are accomplished the best way possible, to make things straightforward and as simple as possible for their loved ones after. So a lot of what we do is, kind of dispelling some myths about, really probate, right?

A great example, I met with a friend who is an attorney, transactional attorney last week, who said, “You know, well, everything goes to my spouse.” And when I explained to him kind of how things go, he’s like, “Oh, okay. I didn’t know that I had to plan for my spouse. I assumed everything just went to her.”

That’s not how it works. So, that’s, you know, probably about half of our practice, and then the other half is probate administration, either through the court or sometimes we can do informal probates. Guardianship, when people don’t have basic planning what will happen if I lose capacity, right?

The answer is you have to go to court to get that authority. Even for an adult, even for your spouse. , And then of course, trust administration, right? , After someone passes or becomes incapacitated. So it kind of spans all of those

Holly Draper: So as family lawyers, we deal with a lot of people who either are currently in or will be in blended family situations.

Can you explain a little bit about why estate planning is particularly important with a blended family?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Sure, yeah. This is, a topic I speak on regularly, probably at least once a month, and generally two to three times a week. We have clients that come into the office, , as a surviving spouse when, their spouse has passed away, where, there is no planning, right?

So, no will, no trust, no powers of attorney, and, they have stepchildren, right? The spouse that has passed away had children that were not theirs. And we give them the news that in fact, you maybe didn’t inherit your spouse’s interest in the house that you purchased together. So, a lot of times people come to our office because, they’re thinking they’re just going to get a rubber stamp.

They think, “Well, everything’s going to come to me as the surviving spouse. We purchased the property together.” and in fact, we’re having a very different conversation where I say, “You retain your 50% interest.” This is what happens most of the time. “You retain your 50% interest, but your spouse’s 50% interest does not go to you.

It goes to your spouse’s children from a prior marriage.” Right? Because those children are not the surviving spouse’s biological children, the kind of default plan, that the State of Texas writes for you says it goes to their children. And, you know, sometimes they have a fine relationship and, sometimes they don’t even know the kids, and so it can look very different ways depending on what assets are in the estate, you know, all kinds of variables.

But, it’s never a fun conversation for them, right? It’s something to overcome.

Holly Draper: So, you mentioned because these children are not the surviving spouse’s children. If they were the surviving spouse’s children, the couple had these children together, what happens then?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: So, it depends on what assets are in the estate and what debts there were.

Those are the two biggest things. So, let’s say, and, and this is pretty common, when all the children are also the surviving spouse’s children, and they have the house and some financial accounts. The house is owned, together, generally, right? If it was purchased during the marriage. Because it’s community property, then, under the, kind of the default rules, right, if the, there is no will in place, then the surviving spouse does get the interest in the house. But, You know, whether it’s that simple depends on what other assets there might be and whether there are any debts.

So, we can do the transfer of the interest in the house with an informal probate, meaning we don’t have to file with the court if there’s no debts. and right, those things are true that they purchased it during the marriage, and we can show it’s community property. But if there are debts and/or if there are financial accounts that we cannot get access to, then we will have to file what’s called a formal administration, where we are seeking to get the surviving spouse, most of the time, appointed as the administrator.

And the children are still heirs in that situation, and so we necessarily have to involve them, and they have to consent to the surviving spouse serving as an independent administrator. And even when they’re the surviving spouse’s children, sometimes that happens, and sometimes it doesn’t. And a complicating factor is if they’re minors, right?

The courts in Texas are not going to, at least none of the courts that we work in, will appoint the surviving spouse if any one of the children are minors as an independent administrator. And so, then what the surviving spouse has to do is become appointed as a dependent administrator, which in essence just means it, it is a court-supervised administration.

And so, you know, if you’re looking to do anything on behalf of the administration, you have to seek court approval. So, a lot more paralegal, a lot more attorney, and a lot more court costs involved, just because of the nature of having to request all of that, and then ultimately file accountings with the court, right?

It is a court-supervised administration versus, if we have a good will, that gives you all the necessary powers, you can act independently of the court, or if all of the heirs agree, you can act independently of the court. You can’t do that if there are any minors involved. And so even if everybody, you know, the kids, are, quote, “of the marriage,” you’re still not going to be able to do that, independently through the court.

And it is, again, not a welcome conversation by the surviving spouse, because this is a surprise to them. Again, they just assume that everything will pass automatically.

Holly Draper: So, if we have clients that are going through a divorce, and they have done all the things they should have done, they’ve got a will, and it’s one of those typical everything to my spouse if my spouse survives me, and if not, everything to my kids. What impact does divorce have on that existing will?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Well, of course, it, you know, anywhere where the spouse is named is, it’s, is, it’s as if they predeceased. And so, you know, some, some people will come worried, you know, “I just recently got, divorced. I need to update so everything’s not going to my spouse.”

Well, that’s not going to happen, right? We will read it, and the court will read it as if the spouse has predeceased. But often the issue is then, well, now we have minors, that are named as beneficiaries. Are there good, powers of attorney in place? Does your executor know that they’re named? And then do they have the finances to step into that role if something happens, and they need to take over as agent under a power of attorney or executor of the will, right?

There are expenses that will increase, not decrease, after someone passes. And, we want to make sure we know whether that person can support that. And if they don’t, then there’s another kind of plan for that, if, if there’s sufficient resources in the estate.

Holly Draper: So, one question I see a lot in Facebook moms groups is about putting a guardian for your kids in your will as an effort to try to get around the other parent.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Mm-hmm

Holly Draper: So, because they think, you know, Dad is a total screw-up. Dad doesn’t, you know… my kids shouldn’t be going to Dad. My kids should be staying with my mom or my sister or whatever. So, talk a little bit about what happens on the probate side if that comes up.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Well, so we normally defer to family law attorneys on this side or, and we can get into some of the other technicalities of a pending divorce and how we work during that time, but, ultimately, you can put your guardianship wishes down, but it’s still a best interest of the child.

It’s still a court determination, right? You’re just stating your wishes in a format that the court can consider, and they give great weight, but we can’t, necessarily take power away from the other biological parent.

Holly Draper: Under what circumstances would a guardian be appointed if there is still a surviving biological parent?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: If there are, and this is more your custody issues that you probably get into, if the other biological parent is not in the best interest of the child, right? Is there a SAPCR, in which case maybe another biological, or a relative has some standing to initiate to take, away under that SAPCR.

My understanding is that’s the only way that could happen.

Holly Draper: What I’m kind of wondering, and maybe this isn’t happening, but I don’t practice probate law, so I don’t know, is if…so under family law, it has become very difficult for non-parents to get in the gate.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Hmm.

Holly Draper: So, let’s say mom had primary custody, dad was kind of a screw-up, but he was around and never really lost his rights, but he really wasn’t involved. Mom dies. There are maybe these other people who think they should have custody of this child, and it has become very, very difficult in the family court to even get in the door. If they’re family members, they can probably get in the door. If they’re not, they, the step-parent definitely is not getting in the door. There’s no avenue for them to get in in the family court. And so I foresee people trying to use the probate court to get around the really strict restrictions on non-parent conservatorship, and I’m curious if you are seeing any of that happening.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: So we don’t deal with a lot of that. I have sat in on some hearings in Travis County kind of dealing with some of this, and essentially, and again, I’ve only seen this in Travis County, but they just refuse to hear it where, this was the issue that the attorneys were fighting about, and, the judge there said, you know, “I don’t have jurisdiction. I’m not hearing this. You need to file there.”

And so I don’t know what’s happening in the other, courts. Now, generally speaking, in the probate world, there’s a lot of weight given to what happens in Travis County Probate Court. And so if I were to guess, that’s what everyone is doing, at least in the Central Texas area. More what we deal with is, in terms of the planning, not lack of planning, but planning, is let’s make sure whomever even if they can’t get guardianship because there’s this other biological parent involved, let’s make sure that somebody else is controlling the finances and the other biological-

Holly Draper: Well, I, I was going to ask about that, where can you, even in a situation where we have a biological parent still living, under what circumstances would there be a, maybe a guardian of the estate appointed-

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Hmm

Holly Draper: even though we have a living parent?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: When there’s no planning. I think it was early last week, we got the surviving parent appointed, but as a dependent because essentially the will was being redone when grandfather passed, to update the appointment for the surviving biological parent, but it didn’t get in place before the person passed away.

And so, and this is all public, because, there were competing applications and, essentially the first named and only named, person withdrew, and because nobody was named in the documents, the court had to appoint the surviving biological parent, as a dependent, right? Get bond, we have to get court approval.

And we tried to make the argument, under the family code that, you know, the biological parent could control the guardian of the estate. Judge wasn’t having it. I mean, we knew it probably wouldn’t, but you know, you have to make it.

So, in that case, and we’re dealing with a couple different situations, but a couple of like really old wills that they were fine when they were done, but because everybody named has passed away or is just too old, it’s cau- you know, it’s caused these large issues, right? That’s one of them. So, we could get her appointed, but there’s all these additional expenses, and there’s kind of no way around that.

Announcer: This episode of the Texas Family Law Insiders Podcast is sponsored by the Draper Law Firm, providing family law appellate representation for non-parent custody cases, jurisdiction issues, property division, standing, conservatorship, possession and access, termination, parental rights, and grandparent access.

For more information, visit draperfirm.com or call 469-715-6801.

Holly Draper: So, changing course a little bit, but if you are advising the general average person out there, what are the main documents that every adult should have?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Oh, that’s a good question because everybody, … I think the trending thing right now is to do trust planning, and we certainly do it, right? But I think there is a misunderstanding about what happens when someone passes away, right? There’s a misunderstanding how Texas versus other states handle it, and then practically what happens.

So, a base plan that everybody should have is a will, right? It just outlines what you want to have happen to your stuff when you die, and then who has control over it, through the court. That makes sure that your loved ones are taken care of after they pass away.

Now, the will still requires probate, but most of the nightmare probate scenarios are the ones either without a will at all, and that is something to be avoided in Texas, the very harsh consequences, right? This is not, an equitable law practice. There are just very black and white rules about how these things go.

We can make probate easier with a well-drafted will, and this is not a DIY will. and, and then, two, right, to, kind of hammer that point home, the other, kind of nightmare probate scenarios are from other states, right? When you have a will, but a lot of other states, will have the probate fees be a function of the estate value.

And so, some probate fees can be well into the six figures in other states for one estate. But that’s not the case here, right? It can be relatively straightforward and not in the six figures with a well-drafted will. It does require probate. It makes it much simpler. So, you know, there’s this obsession recently about, “I must have a trust.”

Maybe, maybe there’s a place for that. It’s certainly not every single instance. But what you do want to have in place is good powers of attorney, right? Arguably, these are more important than, anything else because this allows your loved ones to step in if you become incapacitated and take care of you while you’re living. Without that, right, they may need to seek a guardianship over you in court.

So, a lot of people kind of think of guardianship as only related to minors, but if you lose capacity and you can’t manage your own finances anymore, your spouse is not going to be able to sell the house for both of you. Your spouse is not going to be able to do various things, to take care of the finances. Do you need to sell the house to pay, you know, for some sort of care, or refinance the mortgage, or even access the mortgage? So those are incredibly important.

So, we don’t necessarily need to have a goal of avoiding probate. We need to have a goal of avoiding guardianship with good powers of attorney. So, you know, will, powers of attorney, right, statutory durable for finance, medical, having a directive in place, and HIPAA releases.

Holly Draper: This is kind of from personal experience, to think, for people to think about with the powers of attorney.

You know, you put these are going to go into effect on disability or incapacity. However, when you have an aging parent, you gotta think about how cooperative is that person to going to a doctor to be found to be incapacitated, and I can say that my mother was not.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Yeah.

Holly Draper: And, you know, as we were going off this cliff, thankfully my husband was able to get her to sign one that gave me immediate access. But there was no way that she was going to voluntarily submit to anything that was going to have her deemed incapacitated.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Yeah.

Holly Draper: So, I understand why people do that, and you don’t want somebody just taking over your finances right away. But I think as you see people evolve, it’s important to know when maybe that’s not the right thing to have.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: It’s always the recommendation is to have it effective immediately. So there’s kind of two things. So, what you talked about, right? Because, often people think of becoming incapacitated as this black or white issue, and it’s not. Most of the time it’s not. It’s a huge continuum, and as people go along that continuum, they’re less-likely to give up that control because they feel that they’re losing that control.

And so along the line before they become completely incapacitated, and of course at which point they can’t sign a new power of attorney, they will kind of become obstinate and it becomes increasingly difficult. And so, And we can’t always anticipate. You know, it could be one day fine and then not, you know, if it’s an accident, something like that.

And so, the recommendation always is to name somebody and have it be effective immediately because there’s a question of how do you get the springing power of attorney to be effective upon disability, and, making sure the financial institution is going to accept it. You are greatly increasing the chance that they’re going to not accept that power of attorney if it’s a springing power of attorney.

Holly Draper: Interesting.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: And so, how we talk to clients about it is, you know, if you’re uncomfortable giving somebody that power while you still have the ability to make sure they’re not stealing money from you, you’re certainly not going to give it to them when you don’t have capacity anymore, right? You either trust this person to act on your behalf and in your best interest, or you don’t.

And if you don’t, then there are professional trustees that will serve that role. and so sometimes that’s a good option. You know, the, you can just not have somebody, but of course that would be a court ordered guardianship. Sometimes people are more comfortable with that.

You know, it’s court supervised. So there’s a, there’s a, a protection in that. I love it when sometimes people are like, “Yeah, but who monitors them?” Like, the whole point of these, right, power of attorney or a trust, is that it’s not court supervised. So if you’re concerned about who this is, then we’re t- going to talk about a professional. There’s an expense to it, but it’s an insurance.

Holly Draper: So let’s go back to trusts for a minute. You mentioned that trusts aren’t for everyone even though everybody might think they need a trust. Who should be seriously looking into getting a trust?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: So, the scenario that you were talking about earlier, right? Single individual, newly or not, especially with minor children. You know, that’s always a consideration for a trust because then the question is, again, who’s stepping in and managing everything if something happens to you, right? Already, there’s a lot of grief and a lot of changes. You want the ability to kind of keep everything status quo as much as possible.

And so not having to file with the court immediately to get access to all of the financial accounts and have the ability to sell the house or whatever needs to happen, a trust is going to simplify that greatly, right? It’s a much quicker process to get access to whatever’s in the trust, than filing with the court.

You know, there are ways to, you know, make that process faster, but you have to prove why you’re doing it with the court, and it’s a high bar. So most of the time it’s not sufficient. You know, people will come, “Well, I have to have access to the money to pay the mortgage.” Not a sufficient reason for the court, to do a temporary to get immediate access, right? So, the trust can be a way to get immediate access to that liquidity. To maintain, again, everything that increases, not decreases, in terms of expense after passing. So, the… you know, we’re not dealing with foreclosures and, and that’s a regular thing in probate, right? How do we pay for the… for everything?

I had one client that to maintain everything until he got appointed, now there was no will in this situation, but he was well into the six figures, before he got appointed, and then he could pay himself back, but not many people can maintain all of those expenses.

And that’s an extreme example, but, you know, minor children, right, that can be, a good reason in and of itself, so that we’re setting up whoever’s taking the kids, to be able to function better, and have that liquidity and access to the assets.

Out-of-state real property. You know, normally you have to probate in every jurisdiction, every state where real property sits, right? Instead, you create the Texas trust, you transfer that out-of-state real property to it, and then your trustee would have immediate access, to that and not require a probate in every state. So, a very common reason to set up a trust.

You know, sometimes it is the blended family situation where, You know, I can think of this one spouse came and they said, he said, you know, “I know my kids are going to be a problem for my wife, and I don’t want them to be. I’ve already provided for them, you know, I want everything to pass to her.”

And so what we ended up doing was a joint trust. It was fully funded. So, you know, surviving spouse after the one spouse passed called and said, “Oh, they’re demanding copies,” and, you know, whatever, and we were able to say, “You don’t have to give it to them,” and everything’s fine. Versus potential will contest and having to go through the court to, get everything transferred over to her, depending on how we had set it up.

And then privacy, right? Some people want ultimate privacy. Some people don’t care at all. But if you’re creating substantial trusts for your descendants or spouse, right, most, most people want some level of privacy, right? Normally, the will gets filed for public record. The trust does not. So, if we want to keep any of those distribution or trust provisions private, then we’re going to do that through a trust, not through the will.

We still have a will, it just says everything goes to the trust, everything gets distributed in the same way, but there’s no specific, provision so that the family can keep that private.

Holly Draper: So, what about a situation where a couple has created a trust, say it’s because of their minor children, or they have out-of-state properties, or whatever the reason may be, and now they’re getting divorced.

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Hmm.

Holly Draper: What do we family lawyers need to be looking for with respect to that trust?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Well, I mean, ultimately, it just needs to go away Right, I can think of a client who wanted to maintain the trust. and I said, “Well, it sounds like, you know, finances and control over finances are why y’all are getting divorced, so I don’t know why in the world you would want to maintain, joint finances or a trust with them.”

But ultimately, right, property needs to be transferred out, you know, divided, and make sure that the wills are redone, right? Because when you’re doing a trust, the wills will say, you know, everything goes to this trust, and it’ll have contingent provisions. But you don’t want to deal with those in probate. You know, you just want to redo to make a clean will, right? And so, really, you’re just transferring out, making sure all the beneficiaries are updated. Because when you’re doing trust planning, you’re almost always doing some combination of beneficiary designation updates and transfer of financial accounts.

And so, getting those beneficiary designations updated will be essential, right? Or even just removed, where everything then would go through probate, could make things simpler.

Holly Draper: So, would you recommend having that trust dealt with before the divorce is filed, before it is finalized, or after it is finalized?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: In terms of the asset division, through the divorce proceeding, And then I always defer to the family law attorney, because I’m, Now, Jonathan, my associate attorney here in Austin, is also a family law attorney, so we were talking about a client the other day, and he said, “Well, I don’t, you know, no conflict issue, but I, there’s standing orders, and so…”

So I defer to you guys on standing orders issues. but this, this was a court he practiced in, so, he knew. But, as much as possible, I want them to update it as soon as possible so that if something happens, during the pendency, you know, we’re not giving assets to, you know, your spouse that you’re looking to divorce.

But whether it’s possible, normally I defer to the family law attorney. Yes, we can do this. Check with your family law attorney. Make sure that there’s no violation of any standing orders, because I don’t, I don’t, I don’t play family law attorney.

Holly Draper: So typically, I would say we’re only going to do something like that if both sides have agreed to it, and then the standing orders-

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Mm-hmm

Holly Draper: …aren’t going to matter. But if we have clients where, okay, we got this trust we need to dissolve and get the assets separated out, whatever. How long does that process take?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: I mean, it can be really quick, depending., If everyone’s in agreement, you know, a couple weeks.

Holly Draper: That is very good to know.

So we’re just about out of time, but one last question I wanted to ask was, if you had to leave every family lawyer listening with one piece of advice about estate planning, what would it be?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: Hmm. One piece of advice for family lawyers. You know, I, I just went through, why probate isn’t scary and why you don’t necessarily need a trust, but what I find on the family law side is, generally speaking, like, nobody needs a trust, and that’s not true either, right?

I think, right, real consideration of their goals and some of these, like, hot button issues, right? Blended family, minor children, you know, liquidity, who’s going to take over if something happens, out-of-state real estate… need to be considered. And, you know, whether a trust is a, is a good idea needs to be thought through.

You know, I don’t, I don’t think either way is a good assessment. It’s not, you know, trust is always good, and it’s not trust is always bad. you know, it really needs to be thought through, what they’re trying to accomplish.

Holly Draper: So where can our listeners go if they want to find out more about you?

Pamela Hailey-Petty: So, our website, haileypettylaw.com, no hyphen in there. I do a lot of videos on YouTube, where I kind of go through a lot of the, you know, typical questions and again, try to really dispel some myths.

On the website, you can register. I do weekly webinars on various topics, right? What is probate? What’s basic estate planning? I did will versus trust today. Trust funding, right, what is that, right? A lot of people, will have trusts, but there’s nothing in it, so it doesn’t do anything. and, some, some other topics. I have not yet done guardianship. But there’s a lot of information on that. Different, education you can consume to try to understand, like, what all is involved, and formulate what do I want to do, right? And again, dispel some myths. So, Those are the two best places to get further information about us, and then the practice in general.

Holly Draper: Well, thank you so much for joining me today. for our listeners, if you enjoyed today’s episode, please, go subscribe and leave us a review, and you can enjoy future episodes.

Announcer: The Texas Family Law Insiders Podcast is sponsored by the Draper Law Firm. We help people navigate divorce and child custody cases and handle family law and appellate matters.

For more information, visit our website at www.draperfirm.com.