Five years. 140+ episodes. One question asked of every single guest: “What is one piece of advice you would give to young family lawyers?”

In this milestone episode, host Holly Draper does something different. Instead of sitting down with a new guest, she opens up the archive and pulls the best answers from five years of conversations with attorneys, judges, financial experts, mental health professionals, and mediators from across the Texas family law world — and beyond.

What you’ll get is some of the best advice, from some of the very best professionals in and around family law — covering everything from what to wear to court, to how to protect your reputation, to when you should say yes to a scary opportunity. You’ll get a deeper dive into the most commonly recurring pieces of advice given over the years, with additional wisdom shared by colleagues from all over Texas.

Whether you’re brand new to family law, a seasoned practitioner, or just someone fascinated by this world, there’s something in this episode that will stay with you.

In this episode you’ll discover:

• Why what you wear matters more than you think
• The moment that almost didn’t happen
• The war bell you didn’t mean to ring
• Why your reputation is the only thing that outlasts you
• The five recurring themes of advice from the past five years
• What lawyers in the trenches are saying right now

Mentioned in this episode:

• Texas Family Law
• Podcast
• Milestones
• Advice
• Mentor
• Reputation
• Ethics
• Self-Care
• Burnout
• Judge
• Boundaries
• Learning
• Law
• Statutes

Transcript

142 Holly Draper Five Years of Great Advice from the Best in the Business

Holly Draper: If you could give one piece of advice to young family lawyers, what would it be?

Jim Mueller: That’s appropriate for the podcast, what I would say? No…. I’m sure it’s not…

Holly Draper: I’m curious about the inappropriate advice.

Jim Mueller: Well, I’d say turn and run. But for those young family lawyers that are going to continue in it, I would say get to know every other lawyer as much as possible.

Truly, the more you can get along with your colleagues and your friends and all that, your practice will last so much longer, your career will last longer, the cases will be so much better. Although our clients don’t always understand that, when the lawyers get along, it’s great.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast, your source for the latest news and trends in family law in the state of Texas. Now, here’s your host, attorney Holly Draper

Holly Draper: Hey everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast. I’m your host, Holly Draper, and today we’re going to do something just a little bit different.

So, my podcast producer was recently trying to get me to record another episode before I leave for summer vacation, and in talking about it, he mentioned, “You know, you’ve been doing this for five years, and you have a lot of advice that’s been given.” And I was like, “What? I’ve been doing this podcast for five years? That’s crazy!”

I did not want to do a podcast to begin with. I thought the idea was ludicrous. I especially did not want to see myself on video. I can’t stand listening to myself talk. But here we are, five years later, with 140 episodes, and this podcast has been so amazing for me. It has introduced me to so many cool people.I’ve learned a lot of cool things, and I’ve heard from a lot of you all that it has really been helpful for you, especially for newer family lawyers trying to learn the practice area.

So, over the course of 140 episodes, I have had the privilege of sitting down with some of the most brilliant, experienced, and passionate people in the Texas family law world, and some even outside of Texas: attorneys, judges, financial experts, mental health professionals, mediators, and more.

At the end of every conversation, I have asked each guest the same question: “What is one piece of advice you would give to young family lawyers?” I’ve had answers that were funny, heartfelt, surprising, and sometimes unforgettable. So, we have put them all together and sorted through to find the best of the best to share with you today.

And what you’re going to hear falls into a couple of categories. First, I pulled 15 individual clips that stood out because they were really unique or honest or really powerful, and I felt they deserve to stand alone for you to hear them again. Then, I’ve identified five themes that came up again and again across the episodes.

For each of those themes, I’ve chosen a single clip that I think captures it the best, and then I’m bringing in some other insights, either from myself or from other family lawyers, that fit into those categories. So, whether you’re a brand-new family lawyer, a seasoned practitioner, or just someone who’s interested in family law, I think you’re going to hear something today that stays with you.

So, let’s get to it So we’re going to start with the 15 clips that I’ve chosen for their range. They come from 15 different guests spanning from our very first episode back in 2021 all the way through episode 140. Every one of them is different, and together they cover everything from what to wear to court, how to protect your reputation, and when you should say yes to scary opportunities.

So, let’s start with our first clip. This is coming from episode one. Marilea Lewis was my very first guest. I do not want to go back to myself and listen to this episode. I can’t imagine how bad I did in my very first podcast episode, but I do remember that Marilea was fantastic, and her advice caught me a little bit off guard in the best way.

She didn’t start with case law or strategy. She started with shoes. So here we go with a clip from Marilea Lewis.

Marilea Lewis: You need to do three things in addition to everything you do to get prepared for practice. You need to find comfortable shoes because you’re going to be on your feet a lot, so invest in good shoes that you can stand around and walk around in for extended periods of time.

Buy clothes that fit so that you’re not tugging at ’em or pulling on ’em or they’re not too short or they’re not too tight. Buy clothes that fit, in which you feel comfortable, and find a good shade of lipstick because nothing’s going to perk you up like seeing a new tube of lipstick. Some of that bleeds over to young male lawyers, too.

Young men should have comfortable shoes and a, and a good suit that fits well because when you are comfortable in your clothing and your clothing looks good on you, you’re going to project more confidence, and when you project more confidence, you’re going to be able to focus not just on your presentation, but also on the needs of your client.

Holly Draper: The next clip is from one of my dear friends. She’s a Houston attorney, Shailey Gupta-Brietzke, and her advice focused on preparation. Preparation is something that a lot of guests mentioned, and Shellie paired it with something that doesn’t always come naturally: fearlessness. So let’s hear from Shailey.

Shailey Gupta-Brietzke: I have two pieces of advice actually. The first is to be prepared. You can always make up ground for someone who has more years of experience by being extra prepared. I used to, very early in my career, literally fall asleep with my family code on my pillow because I would be looking over the provisions that I would have in relation to the case I had the next day.So, you can always make up a lot of ground by knowing your case law, by knowing your statutes, by being able to cite the code provisions when you’re in front of a judge.

And the second is to be fearless. To have the confidence to know that you’re smart enough and you’re capable enough to handle these types of cases and to do this kind of work and to not be afraid to kind of push back on the opposing counsels.

You may have difficult pro se parties on the other sides of cases, and sometimes the judges that you’re in front of. There are certainly ways to do it respectfully and authoritatively, um, and I would definitely give you that advice… to be fearless in that regard.

Holly Draper: In episode 24, Melinda Eitzen gave us great advice that I wish a lot of attorneys heard a long time ago. She talks about a mistake a lot of well-meaning young lawyers make, and one that can accidentally turn a manageable case into a war.

Melida Eitzen: I think that a big mistake that young lawyers make that hurts these families is they’re so worried about something bad happening to their client that they give them advice that unfortunately increases the litigation and what I call hits the war bell. They hit the war bell accidentally out of fear and worry.

So, my great example of this is that the lawyer meets with the client and the client says, “What if he takes all the money and does something weird with it?” And so then the lawyer tells the client, “Well, go take the money out of the account in advance, or take half of it.” That’s very common. “Go take half the money before you file for divorce.”

Well, I even, I mean, I did that too when I was young. Yeah. But the problem with that advice is, one, it’s probably not necessary. They probably aren’t going to go get rid of their own money, right? They have no incentive not to preserve their own money. And two, they have just hit the war bell, and the minute that person figures out that they did that, we are off to the races for World War III.

They have this horrible divorce now, highly litigated, and you can’t get, peel it back sometimes. So this is how I recommend they approach it instead. This is what I say to clients. When they say, “Oh, what if he takes all the money? I don’t have any money,” I say, “Do you have enough money, or could you borrow from someone or use your credit cards to get you by for one month?”

And if they say yes to that, then I tell them, “Then don’t do anything because I can get into court in a month and get that money back.”

Holly Draper: Next, we are moving on to Amber Alwais in episode 65, who made one of the boldest statements I’ve heard on this podcast. Her client asked her whether her reputation was more important than the case, and Amber’s answer was immediate.

Amber Liddel Alwais: My advice would be, and you probably heard this before, it takes a lifetime to earn a reputation and only a moment to lose it. So practice always at the epitome of your morals and ethics. Remember that in a close call between you and another lawyer, your reputation speaks volumes, and you never want to tarnish it for anyone, including the client.

And I had a client ask me once here recently. Client said, “Are you telling me your reputation is more important than my case?” And without missing a heartbeat, I said, “Yes, it is,” because it only takes a moment to lose that reputation. It takes forever to build it. You need to hang onto it, and remember, your colleagues are part of the practice.You’re going to see them again. You’re going to see that judge again. And hopefully, the way that you treat opposing counsel will be the way that they treat you, and you want to always take the high road in that regard.

Holly Draper: In episode eight, Kurt Chacon said something that is short enough to put on a sticky note but powerful enough that you’ll never forget it

Kurt Chacon: You’re the only one that’s going to be responsible for your own physical, emotional, spiritual, and mental wellbeing. They will not pay you enough to sacrifice those.

Holly Draper: Next up, we have Regina Edwards in episode 80, who gave me one of my all-time favorite pieces of advice on this podcast. It’s about knowing when not to engage, and having the discipline to follow through on that.

Regina Edwards: I say the same thing anytime anyone asks me, and it is, “You don’t have to attend every argument you’re invited to.”

And that sticks in my head a lot. So, you know, sometimes you’ll get opposing counsel that just wants to argue with you about everything. And if I get an email and I look at it, and it has nothing to do with advancing the case forward, it’s just, “Your client is a piece of crap, and here’s all the reasons the client is a piece of crap.”But there’s nothing in there about advancing the case forward. For example, you know, he hasn’t paid child support and we need him to pay child support.

I treat arguments like parties, like I can just, uh, decide to go or not. Um, so sometimes my, my response is just, “Have a nice day.” Or if I’m feeling extra, I’ll just say, “Be best.”

But…I just, I don’t engage in that. It’s not good for my mental health. It’s not good for my clients for me to get into a pissing contest with the other attorney. Um, it’s not helpful. I don’t know anyone that’s ever been shamed or, you know, chastised by a govern-yourself-accordingly type of, you know, correspondence.

Like, that’s,…who are we doing that for? You’re just doing it to show your client that you’re big and bad, and if that’s the kind of dynamic you want to have with your client, that’s fine. I don’t have to buy into it. So, knowing when you don’t have to respond, I think is a skill that you learn, you know, as you grow older.

Holly Draper: Next up, we have Kristal Thompson in episode nine, who talked about the moment that changed her career, and how it almost didn’t happen. Her message is for anyone who finds themselves standing in front of a scary open door: walk through it

Kristal Thompson: When somebody presents you with an opportunity, even if it scares you, but especially if it scares you, just take it.

I will absolutely never forget till the day I die the first legislative committee meeting, um, that I went to. I walked into a room with, uh, Ken Fuller, Joe Jenkins, Brian Webb, Jack Marr, Lynn Keman, Dean Rucker, Heather King. I mean, you, like, you name it, just people I’d watched at Advanced Family Law, and that I knew were way above my pay grade.

Like, I’d… It was one of the scariest rooms. They…those people had forgotten more law than I even knew at that point, and so just to sit and listen to them and be in the same room was just, uh, it was a master class in family law, and I cannot imagine my life or my practice if I just said no to the opportunity because it scared me.

There was somebody who believed that I could do it, otherwise they wouldn’t have put me on that committee. I maybe didn’t believe in myself so much as they believed in me, but I took the chance, and as scared as I was, I did it, and I am a much better lawyer today because I didn’t walk away from that scary opportunity.

Holly Draper: Next up, we have Judge Roy Ferguson, otherwise known as the judge who had the COVID hearing incident where the lawyer was the cat, who came on the podcast in episode 121 after 30 years on the bench and in practice. His advice is about one of the most common and most damaging things he’s seen young lawyers do.

Roy Ferguson: Here’s my advice for young family lawyers. Your job is not to validate everything you hear from your client, okay? Your job is to listen critically and to evaluate what your client is telling you. The reason I say that is over my 30 years of doing family law, I have seen many young lawyers come in, and they are as emotionally invested as their client.

And if their client told them something, then that’s gospel. They don’t evaluate it. They don’t challenge it. They just take it to heart, and they go in, and they shake their fists and get angry, and they, they mirror the emotions of their client. You know, the response to that is start early listening critically.

Be sympathetic. I don’t know if you want to be empathetic, but certainly be sympathetic, but you need to be listening with the ear that the judge is going to hear with and, and remember what your role is because if you take on the emotions of every one of your family law clients, you’re not going to sleep at night.

You’re going to bring that into your personal life, your relationships. It is too much weight to carry the full emotion of every family law client. My suggestion, and you may disagree with me on this, is that is an unhealthy and self-destructive way to live.

Holly Draper: Up next, we have Scott Becker, who in episode 76 talked about something that sounds obvious but that a surprising number of lawyers get wrong, sometimes without even realizing it.

Scott Becker: You need to be kind to all the court staff, all the opposing counsel and their staff. Like, the biggest mistake I see young lawyers make is perhaps they, they think that other staff are not lawyers. They’re somehow less than a lawyer, and so they, they don’t necessarily… They’re not necessarily mean or rude, but they may be dismissive or condescending or, or just not take the advice of those other staff members seriously.

And I think one of the smartest things I ever did as a baby lawyer was the, the paralegals for the partners that I worked for, you know, I was asked to write a letter, and I wrote it the best way I knew how and showed it to them, thinking, “Okay, I did my job.” And they politely came back to me and said, “You know, you might want to change this,” and, “The partner likes it this way.”

And instead of me going, “Hey, I’m the lawyer. Do what I say,” I said, “Thank you very much. You’ve been a paralegal way longer than I’ve been a lawyer, so I’m going to take your advice.” And I did that with our office staff. I did that with court staff.

I did that with the opposing attorneys as often as possible because those people can screw you, and you won’t even know it’s happening.You wouldn’t even know it was them. So just be kind to them and, and hear what they have to say because they can probably help you way more than you realize

Holly Draper: In episode 53, Ryan Bauerle gave advice that he himself stole from someone else, which is kind of perfect given what that advice is about

Ryan Bauerle: I’m going to steal some advice that I heard from somebody else, and that is to steal, steal, steal from people who do the job better than you.

And that means whenever you see somebody who has a really good pleading, a really good motion to compel discovery, a great affidavit, a good motion to vacate, add that to your file. Uh, we all do it, and eventually you’ll know that you’ve reached a certain level. One of the biggest surprises and compliments is when you see somebody use the motion that you made, and they use it against you, and they copied it.At first, you’re like, “Ah, I can’t believe they did that.” But of course, impersonation is the greatest form of flattery.

And then the other thing is, too, maybe you’re in the courthouse and you see somebody do a really good job arguing a complex motion. Ask that lawyer for, to lunch. You know? Like, I, I’m flattered…Doesn’t happen often. Maybe I don’t even like to do this. But every, every now and then that’ll happen, and I’m flattered by that, because at least from what I understand is we’re supposed to, you know, give a, give a hand up and a hand out to people that are working their way up. I made a lot of mistakes early on in my career when I had very little guidance.

“Here’s, here’s the file. I haven’t met the client yet. Hearing’s this afternoon. Figure it out.” Learned the hard way a lot. So the more you can follow somebody who seems to at least have some idea of what you’re doing is always a good idea. And most of us are, we talk for a living. We’re happy to talk about ourselves and our accomplishments.All you’ve got to do is ask.

Holly Draper: Next up, we have Christine Andresen in episode 102, where she gave some of the most tactical advice in this whole collection. If you’re a family lawyer in Texas, this one is non-negotiable.

Christine Andresen: the judge that you would be appearing before if the person sitting in your office had a fight.

And if you don’t, if you accepted someone from a county you don’t go to a lot, may- maybe not before the consultation, but certainly before you even think about doing anything in court, call someone who appears before that judge a lot. There is so much variation because of our elected judges between, you know…

There is part of Austin that is in Williamson County. You know, they’re, like, it’s, like, different countries with different political systems. You know, like, it matters a lot. It matters a lot. And even if people, even if everything is agreed and friendly, it helps to be able to tell them, “Well, if you fought, here’s what would happen. So in order to not find yourself in that situation, maybe you should agree to a little bit more, or maybe you can hold out for a little bit more in the agreement.” You need to have the, the litigation background. And I think the disadvantage, the biggest disadvantage young lawyers have is they don’t know the judges as well.

Holly Draper: In episode 123, Christina Hallwarth talked about boundaries and about the moment she realized that her clients’ crises could not become her own

Christina Hallwarth: Learn how to set your boundaries. Set them strong, set them early. I would rather, I would always rather you have a strong boundary and then say, “Okay, maybe that’s too rigid,” and walk back from it than have your boundaries way out here and have to retrain people on, on what’s appropriate.

Know that it’s okay to have a boundary, whether that’s I’m only going to communicate with you in writing, whether that’s I’m not going to talk to you after close of business. I’m not going to be available to you after close of business.

Whatever that is, set those boundaries because years and years ago, I watched several very distinguished attorneys retire, and life went on without them. The practice of law went on without them, and I realized that if I got hit by a truck tomorrow, my clients I’m sure would go, “Oh, that’s terrible. That’s so sad.” I’d probably have a couple who would feel really badly, but the biggest calls my office would get is, “What happens to me now? What happens to my case? What’s going to happen next?” And I cannot make their life overtake my life. And so set those boundaries, set them early, so that you can be the best that you can be when you are present for them

Holly Draper: Next up, we have Nikita Lamar, who is living the dream as a lawyer on the beach in Mexico. In episode 106, she pushed back on the idea that there’s only one way to be a family lawyer.

Nikita Lamar: Be true to yourself. Don’t be afraid to deviate from what is deemed traditional, what is deemed to be correct, um, what is deemed to be the only way to be right. The more that you, the closer you get to those types of views, you should want to run away … in my opinion. In my opinion, because there’s always another way to do something, you know?

It may not be the popular way, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not a way. So, I would say stay, stay true to yourself, professionally and personally, because I think that as service providers in this field, we think a lot, sometimes about what the community is going to think, right? What, what your colleagues are going to think. And I’m not saying that there’s not space for that, but I think that we give it too much space, and we let that limit us in ways in which we don’t have to.

One thing that is certain is change. Change is certain, and we are in the space that’s changing, even in the family law arena, the way that people are choosing to run their practices, the way that clients are choosing to have their cases handled, you know?

So, I would just say, you know, to a younger attorney, you know, still staying true to yourself, your beliefs, the way that you want to operate your practice, and, you know, you’ll find your way.

Holly Draper: Next up, we have Hannah Hembree-Bell in episode 72 talking from the heart about something she’s built her firm around, and her message for lawyers at every stage is the same.

Hannah Hembree-Bell: Every client deserves to be treated like your first.  Treat every client like you’re brand new, meaning bring that empathy and compassion and brightness of spirit that you have where you are right now as a young family lawyer, bring that forward to every person that you meet in your whole career. Don’t turn into these crotchety family lawyers who are just bitter and complain and are, are so burnt out and, and stamp every person who comes through the door as like, “This is like that. You’re one of these.”

Make sure to treat each person like a person, and I think a lot of family lawyers don’t do that. And why has my firm grown like it’s grown? Why are we what we are? It’s because we treat people like real people. They’re real. I mean, and that just sounds like something you’d put on a… I mean, I really mean it, but these are real people.

That’s 5,000 of their dollars, and they had to borrow that. And word gets around that you’re like a real person and you’re nice and you care and you give a shit about people, then your firm will grow, too.

Holly Draper: And to close out the first part, we have Carey Worrell from episode 140, my most recent guest. She said something that ties a bow on everything you’ve heard in this section and points toward everything coming in the next.

Carey Worrell: Find the people out there that are willing to help you figure it out, because every day is a new question and a different question, but somebody in the bar has had that question before and dealt with it. And yes, there are a lot of lawyer jerks, but there are a lot of wonderful people out there that are willing to answer your questions.

You have to find yours- find those people and align yourself with them early, but then you have to pay it forward once you’re the experienced person and there’s people coming up behind you.

Announcer: This episode of the Texas Family Law Insiders Podcast is sponsored by the Draper Law Firm, providing family law appellate representation for non-parent custody cases, jurisdiction issues, property division, standing, conservatorship, possession and access, termination, parental rights, and grandparent access.

For more information, visit draperfirm.com or call four six nine seven one five six eight zero one.

Holly Draper: Now we’re going to switch gears because while I was going through 140 episodes to build this compilation, something became clear very quickly. Certain pieces of advice were not just coming up once or twice. They were coming up consistently over and over from multiple guests, episode after episode, in different voices and from different angles.

I identified five themes that define the collective wisdom of this podcast, and for each one, I’ve selected one clip that I believe truly captures it. These are five things that the smartest people in Texas family law collectively agreed you need to know. I also asked in the Texas Family Lawyers Facebook group for additional advice, and a lot of their feedback fell right in line with these five topics.

So, I’m going to throw some of that advice in here as well The first theme is one that came up over and over more than any other, and honestly, it wasn’t even close. Across 140 episodes, the advice was universal, to find a mentor. Joal Cannon-Sheridan said it in episode 54, and she said it in a way that I don’t think I’ll ever forget.

Her father had just passed away, and the advice she shared was his.

Joal Cannon-Sheridan: Don’t be scared to ask. I was the most fortunate person in the world. My father just passed away a month ago, and he and I were incredibly close, and he truly was our modern-day Atticus Finch. And the best piece of advice that I ever got from him is, “It does not make you a failure. It is okay when you don’t know the answer. Just find someone who does, and it’s okay.”

Find a mentor. Find someone that you can call and ask those questions that won’t have any judgment. They’re there to help you because we all pay it forward. So that would be my advice. Don’t be scared to ask, and be also willing to pay it forward when it’s your turn.

Holly Draper: I also got a comment on Texas Family Lawyers from an attorney named Sarah that I thought was really perfect for this theme. She said, “Introduce yourself to lawyers. I have great mentors just because I said hi. And watch court. I watched two experienced lawyers fumble through a hearing, and it made the idea of a hearing much less intimidating.”

Then I personally would add, most experienced family lawyers I’ve met over the years love mentoring young lawyers. I love to mentor young lawyers. You just need to find people in your area that you respect and step out of your comfort zone to approach them. You might be surprised at how willing they are to help.

Moving on to theme number two. This is one I’ve become increasingly passionate about myself, taking care of yourself. Being a lawyer is hard work. Being a family lawyer is especially hard work because it is very emotional. The emotional weight of what we do can really accumulate, and the lawyers who last in this field and who don’t burn out are the ones who have figured this out early, how to take care of themselves and how to protect themselves.

The clip I chose here comes from Richel Rivers in episode 47, and she gave the most complete answer I’ve heard on the question of what this should actually look like.

Richel Rivers: Take care of yourself. This is very, very hard work we do. The kind of intimacy that we are invited to participate in is grueling. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort, and I think every lawyer from the beginning needs to learn how to tend to the physical, mental, and emotional wellbeing.

Physically, moderation in all things. Stand up. I sat down too long. Stand up. Get some exercise. Be careful about those 18-hour days, day after day after day. Give yourself some breaks.

Mentally, make sure that you understand the demands that are on you and that you manage them well. You know what your workflow is. You manage it in a way that doesn’t increase anxiety, but rather helps you alleviate anxiety.

Be good to the people around you. They will help you. That will help your mental state of being day after day after day. And when I say take care of yourself spiritually, I’m absolutely convinced that a successful life as a lawyer requires alignment between what you do and what your values are.

If you love what you do, if you love why you’re doing it, if you know the importance of it, you will feel meaning and purpose in your life as a lawyer

Holly Draper: Several lawyers also chimed in on the Facebook post about this, and I thought their advice was worth sharing, too. Rhonda said, “Put your own mask on first. If you’re not taking care of yourself, you can’t take care of others.”

Christine said something I think is extremely important and I see so many lawyers make this mistake, “Do not give your cell phone number to clients.” I made that mistake early in my career, and I, to this day, will get text messages from clients that I represented 10-plus years ago asking for legal advice. Do not do this.

Lauren added to that, “Don’t put your work email on your personal cell phone.” This is not something that I have been able to accomplish yet, and that is probably because I made the big mistake of using my work email for absolutely everything for the last 15 years. So it is a mess, and I get a lot of personal stuff there, and I cannot break away. But combine those things by not using your work email for personal. Even if you own the business like I do, have a separate personal email and then keep it off your phone if you don’t want to be working all the time.

Carla said something that is very near and dear to my heart because if you know me, you know that I love to travel. She said, “Do not feel guilty for taking a vacation. Don’t let your clients make you feel guilty for taking a vacation. They take vacations, too.”

Courtney said something that I think is phenomenal advice. I wasn’t sure exactly where this should fit, but I think it ties really nicely into taking care of yourself when she said, “Don’t be afraid to turn away a client.

You don’t have to take everyone that calls or that gets referred to you, even if it’s a referral from a family member, friend, or former client. Sometimes your former client, family member, or friend is misinformed or perhaps even an idiot. You’re not obligated to represent anyone they refer to you, especially if you get the ick from the potential new client.”

My partner, Carrie Tapia, added in, “Don’t let the crazies make you crazy.” Anyone who does family law knows that we deal with a lot of crazy. It can be our own clients, it can be the opposing party, it can be the opposing attorney. It can just be the facts of the case. Don’t let it make you crazy.

And finally, I think this also fits into taking care of yourself, Daniel said, “Never be a party’s third attorney on a case, ever.” I cannot emphasize this enough how much of a red flag it is when someone has had a bunch of attorneys, especially if it has been all within the same round of litigation. It’s not that unusual for someone to switch to another attorney when they’re in a modification or something, but if they have had attorneys withdrawing, probably it’s not the attorney that’s the problem, it’s the client

The next theme that came up is something I love, keep learning. Stay a student of the law. No matter how many years you have been practicing, you don’t know everything, and the law is constantly changing. Legislative sessions, new appellate cases, new rules, all these things change, and you have to stay on top of it.

In episode 71, Adam Dietrich put it the way I’d put it myself if I were advising every family lawyer in the state.

Adam Dietrich: Know your rules. Stay on top of court of appeals opinions and, and Supreme Court opinions. Our practice shifts so much on what our courts of appeals say, and there’s so many different issues in family law.

Know your statutes. Stay up on the legislation, the legislative changes, and do your research. Have a background knowledge of everything, and just continue to stay up on it. There are lots of resources throughout the state for the most up-to-date information regarding legislation and case law, and find them and read them.

Educate yourself. Go take the board certification test. I guarantee you that I’m a better lawyer because I spent the time and effort to go educate myself. And best advice I can, I always say that lawyers who come right out of law school know- they know more law at that moment than they ever will in the rest of their life.

I know I did. And, if you’re not a general practitioner and you’re focusing just on family law, well, treat that as a job and educate yourself.

We also had a couple other good comments that were on point from Texas family lawyers. Chris said, “Never assume you know everything, as you can be humbled instantly and be caught off guard. Keep an open mind because sometimes that crazy idea you come up with or are asked to consider may actually be what solves your case. Also, it is absolutely relatable to how the practice of law can be. It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.”

And Farron said, “Every time you’re in court is an opportunity to learn. Listen to the arguments, take notes of the cases and codes being cited.”

Our next theme is about communication. The number one cause of grievances against attorneys relates to not communicating. So pick up the phone, send the email, talk to your client, talk to opposing counsel. It sounds basic, but yet that is the thing that, when it breaks down, causes more problems than almost any other issue in a case.

In episode 10, Hunter Lewis said it first, said it simply, and said it better than almost anyone else.

Hunter Lewis: Someone told me when I started practicing, the best thing to do is pick up the phone, and I will tell you, I live by that. Call the other side, communicate not only with your client, but with the other attorney.

You may not like the person. You may have a bad rapport. You may think this person is overly aggressive, whatever the case may be, but try to have communications. As lawyers, we’re supposed to, you know, really be there for our clients, but it’s not personal between us, right? There is no personal relation to this case that in any way we should be invested.

And it’s a tough lesson to learn, and it does take years to learn that, truthfully, because I can tell you, when I started practicing, I wanted to win every case, and I just wanted to, you know, get in court, and I wanted to dominate every case right? But you learn after doing this for a while that, truthfully, we’ve all been there, and we understand that we need to advocate for our client, but there are ways to have communications and ways to move a case along without creating animosity between counsel, especially if there’s animosity between other, you know, parties in the suit.

So, I would say absolutely communicate, number one thing, and also be reasonable. You and I both know, and in fact, we don’t have cases that neither one of us thought would really settle, and what happens? We settle. And I think a lot of the reasons we settle are because we maintained open communications, and we worked well together, even if the parties didn’t.

Holly Draper: And, from the Texas Family Lawyers comments, Ashley said, in all caps, “LISTEN TO THE JUDGE”, and not just in a make-sure-your-orders-reflect-the-ruling way. The judge will usually tell you, whether verbally, through facial expressions, or sometimes through how they rule on objections, what they want you to hear or what they want to hear from you. Pay attention. They appreciate the focused presentation of a case more than you know.

And our last theme centered around ethics and reputation. This theme came up over and over. Your ethics and your reputation go hand-in-hand. Natalie Koehler, in episode 38, comes to this from the mediator’s chair, and what she describes is exactly what it looks like when a lawyer’s reputation walks into the room before they do.

Natalie Koehler: To be conscientious and ethical, um, no client is worth, uh, selling your soul for. And I think when we’re baby lawyers, we’re drinking the Kool-Aid so much about winning and wanting to be successful and all this, but being collegial and being honest and ethical is the most important thing that I think anybody can be, um, because that follows you.

I will tell you this, Holly, when I’m in mediation, I know the lawyers I work with that tell the truth, and I know the lawyers that don’t tell the truth, and I, I work with them all the time, so I know … I- and I can tell room to room, and I can sit there when I’m working on a mediated settlement agreement and tell the lawyer honestly on the other side, “Hey, this Holly, you can trust her.

Like, you’re not going to have a problem in, in the decree. She’s not going to nitpick it. What she told you that this was what they agreed to, this is what she agreed to.” And you don’t want to, as a baby lawyer, be that guy. You know? You, you don’t want to be that one. You want to be the one that says, “I can always call Holly Draper, because I know that she’s always going to tell the truth, and she’s going to want to work with me on the next round when we’ve got that.”

So always, always maintain your ethical, you know, character, because that’s just, it’s critical. It follows you.

Holly Draper: Some additional comments I thought were worth adding from the Family Lawyer Collective, Brit said, “Never lie. Never lie to the judge. Never lie to your client. Never lie to another attorney. Your reputation for truth and honesty is your highest asset and the easiest to lose.”

To which Lisa responded, “100%. Once I catch a lawyer lying to me, I never trust them again.” John added, “Don’t chase the money. Be a good lawyer, do what’s right, and the money will come.”

And last, Shelley added, “The most valuable thing you have is your integrity. Keep your word and be honest. Don’t stoop to someone else’s level, and remember those opposing counsel who have no integrity.”

Finally, there were several other comments from all the awesome attorneys and Texas family lawyers who shared their wisdom with me to share with you that I thought were worth sharing that didn’t necessarily fall into one of these categories.

First, Dominic said, “When I was a new lawyer, someone told me, quote, ‘You can’t care more about someone else’s problems than they do.'” That has gone beyond just being a mantra for him and has practically become a guiding philosophy in his life. As lawyers, we’re in the business of solving people’s problems for them, but what we all forget from time to time is that the amount we can help is limited by our client’s willingness to accept help and do their part.

Your clients will disappoint you. Your clients will have solvable problems that they prevent you from helping them with. Especially in family law, you have to know when to recognize there’s nothing more you can do and give your time to someone willing to accept your help.

Guy said, “The lawyer’s creed is not aspirational, it’s the bare minimum. A custody retainer should equal the cost of a reliable used car that you would trust to get your daughter safely across the country. If a client doesn’t care enough or have the ability to pay for that for a custody case, you’ll end up working for free. You can’t care more about someone else’s children’s situation than you do your own. Pay yourself and Uncle Sam first, and start a retirement account in year one.”

Jolin said, “Get your money up front and keep an evergreen retainer.”

Cindy said, “Your clients will lie to you. My crim professor said that in law school, and I didn’t believe it. I thought I was going to be so approachable and relatable that my clients would never lie to me. They lie, bigly.”

Gail said, “You don’t have to be an ass to be an advocate. You’re not on a reality TV show. Do unto others, or it will bite you in the hind end. Maybe not today, but it will bite you.

Cindy said, “You don’t take performance reviews from opposing counsel, which helps when dealing with difficult attorneys.”

Now, I want to add a piece onto that. Sometimes opposing counsel, if they are experienced, good mentors, and good people, can give you constructive feedback. And if you come across an attorney that is willing to do that, that is willing to take the time to help you, take that to heart.

Baron said, “Never represent your friends. Every time you do, they end up staying together and it’s awkward.”

And the best advice she can give: “Don’t have kids” Cindy said,. “Don’t be afraid to try your case. Don’t go broke trying to help people out, and don’t be afraid to ask for more time.” I like this one from Michelle. We don’t think about this. A lot of lawyers tell their clients to dress, you know, dress nice for court, dress in their Sunday best.

Michelle says, “Don’t just tell your client to dress nice for court or to dress like they would for church. You have to be specific. Anything goes at a lot of churches these days, and our courtrooms expect more than anything goes. When your client shows up in his wife-beater tank top, shorts, and flip-flops, and a hat that says ‘slut hunter’ for his sexual assault charge, don’t say I didn’t warn you.”

Tiffany said, “Some opposing counsel are going to lie to judges. You’re going to want to expose every lie immediately. Just stay calm and let cooler heads prevail. Gather all of your evidence that they lied, and then expose it at the pretrial conference with a motion to disqualify on grounds that they can’t be honest to the court, or threaten to expose it. 99.9% of the time, they will respond with a good and reasonable settlement offer.”

And from Diana, “Your most valuable professional asset is your reputation for honesty. If you hate it, change your area of practice. Learn the business of practicing law or choose another specialty where someone else deals with the business side.

Keep your focus. A judge wants to know what you want and why he or she should give it to you. Be the best-prepared person in the room.”

Caitlin said, “There is zero reason to be nasty to other lawyers. Zero.”

Bea said, “There is no such thing as uncontested. Flat fees are stupid, especially in family law.”

Maria said, “Family law clients are, by definition, in trauma. They don’t have much executive function. Our job is to help them make rational decisions in that irrational time.”

Linda said, “Don’t do the wrong thing. Don’t be the lawyer that tries to slip things in that are not in the MSA. It says volumes about that lawyer’s lack of ethics to do that. And always be humble. You learn more and gain respect for not being a liar and chasing money fast and first.”

And finally, Dana said, “Don’t be a jerk. You haven’t earned it yet. Don’t roll over, but listen to others as well.” I’ll tack onto that. I don’t think anyone can earn the right to be a jerk, no matter how much experience you have. Be a good person. Be a good colleague. We all have to work together. Let’s get through this together.

So that is the best advice from the first 140 episodes over five years of the Texas Family Law Insiders podcast, and there’s one thread I see running through it all. The best family lawyers are not just technically skilled.

They’re self-aware, they’re connected, they’re honest, and they know when to ask for help. To all my guests who have shared their time, expertise, and wisdom over the first five years of this podcast, thank you so much. I have loved having you all on the show. To the lawyers who are just starting out, I hope you heard something today that makes the road ahead a little bit easier.

And to everyone who’s been listening since the beginning, here’s to another five years Thanks so much for tuning in today. As always, if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review, and we’ll see you next time on the Texas Family Law Insiders Podcast.

Announcer: The Texas Family Law Insiders Podcast is sponsored by the Draper Law Firm. We help people navigate divorce and child custody cases and handle family law and appellate matters.

For more information, visit our website at www.draperfirm.com